6 ms·

Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? I've had my Miele vacuum cleaner for 15 years now, and I boug

by furyg3 10mo ago

Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? I've had my Miele vacuum cleaner for 15 years now, and I bought it second hand. I can still buy bags and filters for it, and when the floor roller piece broke (something heavy fell on it) I was able to buy a replacement one for cheap. I see no reason why it can't go another 10 years. It feels like a very low probability that a robo-cleaner I buy now will come from a company that (in 10+ years) will a) exist and b) support 10+ year old vacuum cleaners.

mzhaase 10mo ago
Check out valetudo.
- gkhartman 10mo ago
  Second this if you are willing to do some mild hardware hacking. I've been running valetudo on two Dreame L10 vacuums for three years without issue. Keeps a lot of the smart features, for use over lan instead of a cloud connection.
  - shantara 10mo ago
    I have bought a Dreame L10 Ultra with Valetudo in mind, but I discovered that if you skip connecting it to the internet during the setup process, you can still use it normally. I don’t care about any of the smart features and simply start a full cleaning or a spot cleaning by pressing a hardware button on the robot itself.
    - ahoka 10mo ago
      Yeah, just press the button? I thought all machines have that.
    - gkhartman 10mo ago
      Good point. That seems like a good option as well if you don't need any other features. I don't really use many of the smart features, but the ability to set up cleaning zones in valetudo has been really nice. Same goes for "do not clean" zones.
d_k_f 10mo ago
Your best bet would be to check which models are supported by Valetudo, which is a local-only firmware replacement: https://valetudo.cloud/ https://valetudo.cloud/ and https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo
- goodpoint 10mo ago
  valetudo is just a hack, not a firmware replacement, and could be blocked by a firmware update from the OEM plus it can void your warranty
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    > plus it can void your warranty Unless you happen to live in a jurisdiction that care more about users than companies, like the EU. The manufacturer would have to prove that the new custom firmware is actually the cause of the damage, otherwise they need to fulfill the warranty guarantee regardless of what firmware you run.
    - goodpoint 10mo ago
      Good luck proving that changing the firmware is not voiding a warranty.
      - embedding-shape 10mo ago
        > Good luck proving that changing the firmware is not voiding a warranty. You're thinking about it the wrong way around. The manufacturer has to prove that the custom firmware is the reason it broke, you don't have to prove anything. Username not accurate.
        deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
  - gempir 10mo ago
    Installing Valetudo stops any firmeware updates forever from the OEM. [1] I wouldn't consider it a hack. It's an alternative way to run your vacuum, with yes potentially less features if the OEM makes a lot of future updates, but Valetudo also comes with their own set of updates. [1] https://valetudo.cloud/pages/usage/firmware-updates.html https://valetudo.cloud/pages/usage/firmware-updates.html
stavros 10mo ago
I used Valetudo on my early Roborock model and it worked great for many years. Unfortunately, the battery gave out and it's somehow DRMed, so even though everything else works fine, the vacuum refuses to work because it doesn't like the new battery. It's the worst kind of e-waste, it's only waste because someone decided I should buy a whole new vacuum when the battery dies, but Valetudo is otherwise good. Just never try to look for support at all.
- gspr 10mo ago
  This stuff should flat-out be illegal.
  - stavros 10mo ago
    I think it now is, in the EU. Still trying to figure out whether I can salvage this vacuum...
    - batisteo 10mo ago
      Please blog about it if you can, success or not!Also, I hope John Deer won't succeed with their attacks on the Right to Repair in US nor EU
- KeplerBoy 10mo ago
  Oh boy the creator of valetudo sure has an abrasive writing style. Whatever works for him, I guess.
  - ghostpepper 10mo ago
    It's too bad because it's such a great project otherwise. He puts a ton of free labour into the system and I'm sure he's dealt with some entitled users but it's really a huge reason I don't recommend it to more people. Actively telling people they must learn to solder and making the only support channel on telegram are two big turn-offs for a lot of people. This is absolutely his right and perhaps his intention to keep the project small, but in that case I wish there was another alternative vacuum firmware project.
rsynnott 10mo ago
I mean, Miele make one, so there’s that. No idea if it’s any good. Obviously no guarantee that Miele will exist in a decade, but I wouldn’t bet against them personally.
whywhywhywhy 10mo ago
Had a Neato Botvac D7 for many years, works completely offline and it's cleaning route is pretty smart using lidar. Can't vouch for their newer models just because this one has worked so well for years.
- mrknmc 10mo ago
  Neato went bankrupt lol
- PetitPrince 10mo ago
  My D7 lost its mapping capability (including markerless no go zone) a few weeks ago due to the new owner pulling the plug early on their server. An enthusiast is jerry rigging an offline solution thanks to a vuln in an earlier firmware, but for those unwilling to solder an esp32 to the debug port of their vacuum they essential got a lesser robot overnight.
InsideOutSanta 10mo ago
>Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? It depends on what exactly you want. My Roborock can't connect to my Wi-Fi anymore for some unfathomable reason. It no longer runs automatically, and I can't edit its map or tell it where exactly to clean. I just hit the power button once a day to start it manually, and it cleans everything it can access.
dmantis 10mo ago
For me it's so weird nobody makes a thing you can trust. I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt..
- moooo99 10mo ago
  > I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt.. I feel like you are over estimating market demand based on your own preferences. Been there, done that. Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. The market for privacy focused vacuum robots (at a significant premium) is probably not even going to pay for the injection mould tooling
  - closewith 10mo ago
    > Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. Most techies vastly overestimate how much money most people have available for nice-to-haves like privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that.
    - haritha-j 10mo ago
      this. Thank goodness i'm a broke phd student.
      - raxxorraxor 10mo ago
        Maybe I should buy some broke phd students for vacuuming then. Perhaps take their phones while they work, so that they aren't connected to the cloud.
  - Xelbair 10mo ago
    >Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. No, we just think that this security nightmare should be regulated, and companies should be forced to keep sane security standards and not abuse data gathered from users.. and there's this weird idea of owning thing you were sold, i know - its' a bit weird. Just like when you go buy some food you don't have to think if it is safe to eat.
Mistletoe 10mo ago
Just buy an old Roomba on Ebay. Mine doesn’t even know what the internet is. You push the button and it goes. There is a huge market of cheap aftermarket batteries for it.
probably_wrong 10mo ago
For what it's worth I never connected my 5-years-old Xiaomi Mi to the Internet - I just push the button and it starts. A wheel stopped working this year but I bought the replacement and installed it without much fuzz. As for modern vacuums I have no idea what happens if you never set up their WiFi.
kleiba 10mo ago
> Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? What do you mean? Why would you need an internet connection for a vacuum cleaner? (Sorry for asking, I've never owned a robot one, plus I am old.)
- lionkor 10mo ago
  Lots of modern appliances connect to the Internet, have multiple computers inside that need updates, maintenance, maybe subscription payments, and that need to phone home everything they see, hear and do.
  - kleiba 10mo ago
    Huh, why is that? Admittedly, I only own older appliances, but somehow they don't require updates. Subscription payments? For household devices you own? I suspect "phoning home" is a good incentive for manufacturers, but why would anyone buy such a device then?
    - IAmBroom 10mo ago
      Dunno, but welcome to the world post-IOT. You've apparently been off the web and out of stores for over a decade. Home Depot sells a bluetooth-connected shower head (just the head - it doesn't turn the water on). There are smart thermostats that are wifi connected so you can change the temperature of your house from anywhere in the world... for reasons...
      - kleiba 10mo ago
        You're right, I'm trying hard to practice digital detox as much as I can. Unfortunately, for job and family reasons I cannot give up an internet connection at home, but I have never owned a mobile phone in my life. It often feels strange when I peak out my head into the real world as it exists today.
    - lionkor 10mo ago
      Not buying them means usually having a good understanding what "smart" means, or why having an app as a requirement is silly. The mean consumer has no idea what any of that means, they sometimes even lack the technical vocabulary needed to put into words what annoys them.
n8cpdx 10mo ago
I don’t get where the fear mongering is coming from on this. All or nearly all robot vacuums have controls for their various functions on the side. Plenty of robotic vacuums even come with remotes so you can program schedules without a phone/wifi/internet. If you go really cheap you can get decent robots that won’t even let you connect to WiFi if you tried (at least as of a few years ago).
tootie 10mo ago
I have eufy 11s. It does a braindead bump-and-run algorithm that uses no computer vision and does not map your room. It's a bit slower, but still does a solid job. Cheap too.
samschooler 10mo ago
I have a roomba i3, it's blocked at the network level, but it is connected to my home assistant instance. It can clean and map rooms but doesn't communicate with the cloud because of the network blocking.
chemodax 10mo ago
I recommend to look at Kärcher RCV 5. High quality. https://www.kaercher.com/us/home-garden/robot-vacuums-and-mops/rcv-5-12696450.html https://www.kaercher.com/us/home-garden/robot-vacuums-and-mo...

by furyg3 10mo ago

mzhaase 10mo ago

Check out valetudo.

gkhartman 10mo ago
Second this if you are willing to do some mild hardware hacking. I've been running valetudo on two Dreame L10 vacuums for three years without issue. Keeps a lot of the smart features, for use over lan instead of a cloud connection.
- shantara 10mo ago
  I have bought a Dreame L10 Ultra with Valetudo in mind, but I discovered that if you skip connecting it to the internet during the setup process, you can still use it normally. I don’t care about any of the smart features and simply start a full cleaning or a spot cleaning by pressing a hardware button on the robot itself.
  - ahoka 10mo ago
    Yeah, just press the button? I thought all machines have that.
  - gkhartman 10mo ago
    Good point. That seems like a good option as well if you don't need any other features. I don't really use many of the smart features, but the ability to set up cleaning zones in valetudo has been really nice. Same goes for "do not clean" zones.

d_k_f 10mo ago

Your best bet would be to check which models are supported by Valetudo, which is a local-only firmware replacement: https://valetudo.cloud/ https://valetudo.cloud/ and https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo

goodpoint 10mo ago
valetudo is just a hack, not a firmware replacement, and could be blocked by a firmware update from the OEM plus it can void your warranty
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > plus it can void your warranty Unless you happen to live in a jurisdiction that care more about users than companies, like the EU. The manufacturer would have to prove that the new custom firmware is actually the cause of the damage, otherwise they need to fulfill the warranty guarantee regardless of what firmware you run.
  - goodpoint 10mo ago
    Good luck proving that changing the firmware is not voiding a warranty.
    - embedding-shape 10mo ago
      > Good luck proving that changing the firmware is not voiding a warranty. You're thinking about it the wrong way around. The manufacturer has to prove that the custom firmware is the reason it broke, you don't have to prove anything. Username not accurate.
      - deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
- gempir 10mo ago
  Installing Valetudo stops any firmeware updates forever from the OEM. [1] I wouldn't consider it a hack. It's an alternative way to run your vacuum, with yes potentially less features if the OEM makes a lot of future updates, but Valetudo also comes with their own set of updates. [1] https://valetudo.cloud/pages/usage/firmware-updates.html https://valetudo.cloud/pages/usage/firmware-updates.html

stavros 10mo ago

I used Valetudo on my early Roborock model and it worked great for many years. Unfortunately, the battery gave out and it's somehow DRMed, so even though everything else works fine, the vacuum refuses to work because it doesn't like the new battery. It's the worst kind of e-waste, it's only waste because someone decided I should buy a whole new vacuum when the battery dies, but Valetudo is otherwise good. Just never try to look for support at all.

gspr 10mo ago
This stuff should flat-out be illegal.
- stavros 10mo ago
  I think it now is, in the EU. Still trying to figure out whether I can salvage this vacuum...
  - batisteo 10mo ago
    Please blog about it if you can, success or not!Also, I hope John Deer won't succeed with their attacks on the Right to Repair in US nor EU
KeplerBoy 10mo ago
Oh boy the creator of valetudo sure has an abrasive writing style. Whatever works for him, I guess.
- ghostpepper 10mo ago
  It's too bad because it's such a great project otherwise. He puts a ton of free labour into the system and I'm sure he's dealt with some entitled users but it's really a huge reason I don't recommend it to more people. Actively telling people they must learn to solder and making the only support channel on telegram are two big turn-offs for a lot of people. This is absolutely his right and perhaps his intention to keep the project small, but in that case I wish there was another alternative vacuum firmware project.

rsynnott 10mo ago

I mean, Miele make one, so there’s that. No idea if it’s any good. Obviously no guarantee that Miele will exist in a decade, but I wouldn’t bet against them personally.

whywhywhywhy 10mo ago

Had a Neato Botvac D7 for many years, works completely offline and it's cleaning route is pretty smart using lidar. Can't vouch for their newer models just because this one has worked so well for years.

mrknmc 10mo ago
Neato went bankrupt lol
PetitPrince 10mo ago
My D7 lost its mapping capability (including markerless no go zone) a few weeks ago due to the new owner pulling the plug early on their server. An enthusiast is jerry rigging an offline solution thanks to a vuln in an earlier firmware, but for those unwilling to solder an esp32 to the debug port of their vacuum they essential got a lesser robot overnight.

InsideOutSanta 10mo ago

>Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? It depends on what exactly you want. My Roborock can't connect to my Wi-Fi anymore for some unfathomable reason. It no longer runs automatically, and I can't edit its map or tell it where exactly to clean. I just hit the power button once a day to start it manually, and it cleans everything it can access.

dmantis 10mo ago

For me it's so weird nobody makes a thing you can trust. I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt..

moooo99 10mo ago
> I would happily overpay 3-4x for the good vacuum without the cloud and the need to do some hacking with valetudo, with an official service and support for the device. Yet nobody is willing to take the money. They'd rather go bankrupt.. I feel like you are over estimating market demand based on your own preferences. Been there, done that. Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. The market for privacy focused vacuum robots (at a significant premium) is probably not even going to pay for the injection mould tooling
- closewith 10mo ago
  > Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. Most techies vastly overestimate how much money most people have available for nice-to-haves like privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that.
  - haritha-j 10mo ago
    this. Thank goodness i'm a broke phd student.
    - raxxorraxor 10mo ago
      Maybe I should buy some broke phd students for vacuuming then. Perhaps take their phones while they work, so that they aren't connected to the cloud.
- Xelbair 10mo ago
  >Most techies under estimate how little normal folks care about privacy, cybersecurity and stuff like that. No, we just think that this security nightmare should be regulated, and companies should be forced to keep sane security standards and not abuse data gathered from users.. and there's this weird idea of owning thing you were sold, i know - its' a bit weird. Just like when you go buy some food you don't have to think if it is safe to eat.

Mistletoe 10mo ago

Just buy an old Roomba on Ebay. Mine doesn’t even know what the internet is. You push the button and it goes. There is a huge market of cheap aftermarket batteries for it.

probably_wrong 10mo ago

For what it's worth I never connected my 5-years-old Xiaomi Mi to the Internet - I just push the button and it starts. A wheel stopped working this year but I bought the replacement and installed it without much fuzz. As for modern vacuums I have no idea what happens if you never set up their WiFi.

kleiba 10mo ago

> Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? What do you mean? Why would you need an internet connection for a vacuum cleaner? (Sorry for asking, I've never owned a robot one, plus I am old.)

lionkor 10mo ago
Lots of modern appliances connect to the Internet, have multiple computers inside that need updates, maintenance, maybe subscription payments, and that need to phone home everything they see, hear and do.
- kleiba 10mo ago
  Huh, why is that? Admittedly, I only own older appliances, but somehow they don't require updates. Subscription payments? For household devices you own? I suspect "phoning home" is a good incentive for manufacturers, but why would anyone buy such a device then?
  - IAmBroom 10mo ago
    Dunno, but welcome to the world post-IOT. You've apparently been off the web and out of stores for over a decade. Home Depot sells a bluetooth-connected shower head (just the head - it doesn't turn the water on). There are smart thermostats that are wifi connected so you can change the temperature of your house from anywhere in the world... for reasons...
    - kleiba 10mo ago
      You're right, I'm trying hard to practice digital detox as much as I can. Unfortunately, for job and family reasons I cannot give up an internet connection at home, but I have never owned a mobile phone in my life. It often feels strange when I peak out my head into the real world as it exists today.
  - lionkor 10mo ago
    Not buying them means usually having a good understanding what "smart" means, or why having an app as a requirement is silly. The mean consumer has no idea what any of that means, they sometimes even lack the technical vocabulary needed to put into words what annoys them.

n8cpdx 10mo ago

I don’t get where the fear mongering is coming from on this. All or nearly all robot vacuums have controls for their various functions on the side. Plenty of robotic vacuums even come with remotes so you can program schedules without a phone/wifi/internet. If you go really cheap you can get decent robots that won’t even let you connect to WiFi if you tried (at least as of a few years ago).

tootie 10mo ago

I have eufy 11s. It does a braindead bump-and-run algorithm that uses no computer vision and does not map your room. It's a bit slower, but still does a solid job. Cheap too.

samschooler 10mo ago

I have a roomba i3, it's blocked at the network level, but it is connected to my home assistant instance. It can clean and map rooms but doesn't communicate with the cloud because of the network blocking.

chemodax 10mo ago

I recommend to look at Kärcher RCV 5. High quality. https://www.kaercher.com/us/home-garden/robot-vacuums-and-mops/rcv-5-12696450.html https://www.kaercher.com/us/home-garden/robot-vacuums-and-mo...