9 ms·

>there's always one controversy after another online these days in software communities and I think rather than trust the latest mob I'm going to trust the guy

>there's always one controversy after another online these days in software communities and I think rather than trust the latest mob I'm going to trust the guy who's been serving me well for more than a decade. These openness purity tests are really not for me. Thanks you! Sad that HN gets ideologically captured in the same mob behavior instead of thinking logically and practically.

nottorp 10mo ago
The logical thinking is: are they going to make me dependent on some cloud service to develop for Arduino? Don't know what Adafruit has a problem with, but the above is my problem.
- vasco 10mo ago
  They can't do that. Maybe they can launch new versions later where they lock it down, but then we will just use something else.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    The latter is what this discussion is about. Will future Arduino released things still be usable for our means, or do we need to ditch them.
    - nottorp 10mo ago
      Yep, it's fine to not consider future versions when you do say hobby projects, but I worked on a commercial Arduino based project that's supposed to run on top of poles on solar. For that I very much care if they plan to make it cloud dependent... and I don't assume sanity on part of management.
      - 1718627440 10mo ago
        > I worked on a commercial Arduino based project Me too.
        jack_tripper 10mo ago
        What product?
        deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
        1718627440 10mo ago
        Essentially a TCP/IP based pager for the event industry.
        nottorp 10mo ago
        Mine is even more boring - and on hold - but it’s reading data from some sensors and sends it over NB-IoT to a server.
        1718627440 10mo ago
        > and on hold Due to the Qualcomm issue, or something else? I'm working for a small company, so we will likely just ignore it.
        nottorp 10mo ago
        No no. Customer got acquired the 32th time (been working for them for a long time occasionally) and they’re “reevaluating the ongoing projects.”
- jack_tripper 10mo ago
  >The logical thinking is: are they going to make me dependent on some cloud service to develop for Arduino? The logic to me is "how can they do that?". You don't need a cloud service to program a microcontroller and they can't force that upon you even if they'd want to since the arduino board is not an iPhone.
  - ethbr1 10mo ago
    > "how can they do that?" License future important libraries only for use via their cloud toolchain? Stop contributing support to non-cloud toolchain and/or intentionally break it? Slip more restrictive licensing into new easy to use features (like a vision service) that taint combined products? Never underestimate a company's ability to pay lawyers to restrict freedom.
    - jack_tripper 10mo ago
      How? Libraries are all open source by the community. Arduino AVR doesn't need proprietary microcode to boot= and run.
      - nottorp 10mo ago
        Last Arduino I worked with is one of those ARMs that pretend they're an AVR, for example.
    - 1718627440 10mo ago
      The issue with that is that they don't even own the (exclusive) rights to "their" libraries. They are nothing more than a package repository.
  - stephen_g 10mo ago
    They could very much force it on you, for new units at least - depending on what micro is on the boards, they could potentially very easy start shipping them with locked bootloaders (and disabled JTAG/SWD porrts) that would only run binaries that are signed by them. They could potentially have their software load a unexpectedly re-flash existing units with a locked bootloader too, it would just be harder to keep the key secret (because the tool flashing the new bootloader on the first time would need to know it)

nottorp 10mo ago

The logical thinking is: are they going to make me dependent on some cloud service to develop for Arduino? Don't know what Adafruit has a problem with, but the above is my problem.

vasco 10mo ago
They can't do that. Maybe they can launch new versions later where they lock it down, but then we will just use something else.
- 1718627440 10mo ago
  The latter is what this discussion is about. Will future Arduino released things still be usable for our means, or do we need to ditch them.
  - nottorp 10mo ago
    Yep, it's fine to not consider future versions when you do say hobby projects, but I worked on a commercial Arduino based project that's supposed to run on top of poles on solar. For that I very much care if they plan to make it cloud dependent... and I don't assume sanity on part of management.
    - 1718627440 10mo ago
      > I worked on a commercial Arduino based project Me too.
      - jack_tripper 10mo ago
        What product?
        deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
        1718627440 10mo ago
        Essentially a TCP/IP based pager for the event industry.
        nottorp 10mo ago
        Mine is even more boring - and on hold - but it’s reading data from some sensors and sends it over NB-IoT to a server.
        1718627440 10mo ago
        > and on hold Due to the Qualcomm issue, or something else? I'm working for a small company, so we will likely just ignore it.
        nottorp 10mo ago
        No no. Customer got acquired the 32th time (been working for them for a long time occasionally) and they’re “reevaluating the ongoing projects.”
jack_tripper 10mo ago
>The logical thinking is: are they going to make me dependent on some cloud service to develop for Arduino? The logic to me is "how can they do that?". You don't need a cloud service to program a microcontroller and they can't force that upon you even if they'd want to since the arduino board is not an iPhone.
- ethbr1 10mo ago
  > "how can they do that?" License future important libraries only for use via their cloud toolchain? Stop contributing support to non-cloud toolchain and/or intentionally break it? Slip more restrictive licensing into new easy to use features (like a vision service) that taint combined products? Never underestimate a company's ability to pay lawyers to restrict freedom.
  - jack_tripper 10mo ago
    How? Libraries are all open source by the community. Arduino AVR doesn't need proprietary microcode to boot= and run.
    - nottorp 10mo ago
      Last Arduino I worked with is one of those ARMs that pretend they're an AVR, for example.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    The issue with that is that they don't even own the (exclusive) rights to "their" libraries. They are nothing more than a package repository.
- stephen_g 10mo ago
  They could very much force it on you, for new units at least - depending on what micro is on the boards, they could potentially very easy start shipping them with locked bootloaders (and disabled JTAG/SWD porrts) that would only run binaries that are signed by them. They could potentially have their software load a unexpectedly re-flash existing units with a locked bootloader too, it would just be harder to keep the key secret (because the tool flashing the new bootloader on the first time would need to know it)