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I’m the last person to defend PE companies. I saw first hand what they were like when I was responsible for integrating acquisitions software. But there seems

I’m the last person to defend PE companies. I saw first hand what they were like when I was responsible for integrating acquisitions software. But there seems to be a lot more at play. Taxpayers too cheap to fund infrastructure. The article calls out fundraising drives needed to keep equipment up and running and training. Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid? Why should any company create software that they can’t do at a profit - ie rewriting software for a new federal standard? Every problem is downstream of people wanting government services and not wanting to pay for them.

NordSteve 11mo ago
I'm guessing you don't live in a rural area in the US.
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  I grew up in South GA and my family still lives there. I got the hell out of dodge the week after graduating from college in 1996. I said in another reply, I’m all for the state and the federal government helping rural America where their own tax base isn’t strong enough. I’m also for universal health care that would help rural areas far more than me. I wouldn’t complain about my taxes paying for it. It’s rural America that keeps voting for local, state, and federal politicians that put them in this place.
  - gottorf 11mo ago
    > It’s rural America that keeps voting for local, state, and federal politicians that put them in this place. In my experience, not everyone's primary policy goal is to ensure that as much taxpayer money as possible gets redistributed in their favor. Of course, this isn't to say that the problem you described (of people wanting government services but not wanting to pay for it) does not exist, but I find that to be applicable broadly, not just to rural America.
    - SoftTalker 11mo ago
      Agree, I live in (fairly) rural area and most of the people out here don't want much more from the government but maybe roads to drive on, and to be left alone.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        Are you saying they are going to refuse Trump’s bailouts for farmers? Are you saying they don’t want hospitals near by because that means they would have to accept government help? I’m sure even providing basic infrastructure is coming from funding from sources outside of their community
        SoftTalker 11mo ago
        I don't know any real farmers. Have a few neighbors with small herds of cows but that's not their only or even primary source of income. I try not to talk politics much. People live out here knowing full well that the nearest hospital is 30 minutes away and if they need to call an ambulance it's probably going to be at least 15-30 minutes, maybe longer, before it shows up.
        raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        But you do know human nature. Do you think conservative farmers who are struggling are going to refuse to take government funds? If someone is having a heart attack are they going to refuse to go to hospital that is backed by the federal government?
        SoftTalker 11mo ago
        I doubt they would refuse government money, IDK. It's kind of how I feel about Social Security. I'm not going to refuse it, especially since I have paid into it my entire working life. But I'd rather it didn't exist, and I know it isn't sustainable.
  - pessimizer 11mo ago
    Their choice is between two private clubs who both cut services when in power, and are both taking huge amounts of money from private equity. The Democrats spent the beginning of the 2016 cycle all pretending to be for universal health care (literally the only reason why Buttigieg and Harris got on stage), then spent the rest of the cycle dishonestly campaigning against it while fixing a primary. As soon as Bernie lost, health insurance and healthcare stocks had their highest stock price bump in history. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-super-tuesday-2020-election-healthcare-medicare-for-all-aca-a9376136.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... I agree with your opinions on government funding, I just find it gross when it's used as an excuse to put the blame on the powerless. The powerless are not powerless because they choose to be, they're powerless because they are restrained by the powerful. Not only is the information they receive about the world restricted and their educations propagandistic, but if they voted for what the powerful didn't want, their vote would be ignored. On the other hand, you've been convinced to blame the powerless for the crimes of the powerful, so I don't know how you're any less of a sucker. I guess you're wealthier than they are, so maybe you're a support system for the people doing the suckering. edit: I had to add the last, because this type of argument is something I consistently hear from people who are paid to do the exploiting. If you're a thief, you figure out a way to blame the people you steal from.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      Yes because in 2020 when middle of the road Biden barely eked out a win against Trump, I’m sure Bernie would have won. Bernie’s ideas were way too left field for me and I consider myself to be a bleeding heart capitalist pig - ie let companies make money, tax them and use the money to provide a safety net. Also take away the idea of your insurance being tied to your employment
      - cindyllm 11mo ago
        [dead]
- lkbm 11mo ago
  I do. We have paid police, because we want law and order. We have paid dump/collection center workers, because you need a place to take trash. We have paid teachers and school staff, because we want a good education for our kids. We have paid road maintenance workers, because it's really helpful to have properly maintaind roads. We have paid librarians, because libraries are one of the core community centers in the area. We have paid animal control workers because rabies is scary. We pay for ambulance service because sometimes you need medical attention asap. And we have volunteer fire fighters, because stopping fires, in a rural, wildfire prone area is, what? Optional? Just a side gig? Something you do just for fun? A big part of the confusion people have is that "volunteer" fire departments often include pay. It's not a full-time job, but they at least get paid for their calls. That's not always true, though, and it's weird. It's an artifact of history that our different layers of government have divvied up basic services amongst themselves in a way that leaves fire fighting as a local concern that may or may not involve paid professionals, while the sheriff and local police will be paid professionals, the roads will be maintained, and the school will have teachers, and principals, and custodians, and people running the cafeteria, and so on. Why do we not have "volunteer police force"? Because we treat it as a full-time position for career police officers. It's weird that this one, very critical service uses "volunteers," while most of the others are full-time, paid positions, and I find it confusing and weird, despite having grown up in rural NC, just outside a town of under a thousand, and now live at the other end of rural NC, outside the limits of a different town of under thousand people.
toast0 11mo ago
> Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid? In urban/suburban areas, you need firefighters based on number of population, more or less, which isn't too bad to pay for, more people means a little bit from everyone adds up. For rural areas, you need figherfighters based on area. If you had the right per capita fire equipment and personnel, they'd be spread so thin they may as well not exist. Volunteerism at least gets you affordable personnel, but you still need to fundraise for equipment and operational expenses. Edit: also, the call volume is very low. Your properly staffed fire department would be nearly always idle. With volunteers on call, they can just go about thei usual things, and if a call comes in, they can respond from where they are.
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  I’ve got an idea: Every city and county belongs to a state with a broader tax base. Every state is a part of the richest country in the world. I’m sure you see where I’m getting at here. But rural America calls that “socialism”.
  - LunaSea 11mo ago
    Rich how? What's the budget deficit again?
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      But yet we find money for the largest military in the world - and much of that goes to military equipment and bases that military leaders say they don’t need and for tax cuts. How much money do you think it would take to fund the shortfall for every rural fire department?
    - acdha 11mo ago
      Deficits are a policy choice, not an inevitability. The budget was balanced at the turn of the century but Republicans under G. W. Bush decided that meant they could cut taxes, especially for the rich. They did that again for both Trump terms, before COVID. Unlike the financial crisis or pandemic, there was no emergency driving those decisions and the massive debt increases were entirely voluntary.
ggfdh 11mo ago
> too cheap Too poor
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  The other half is stop voting for politicians on the state and federal level who explicitly try to dismantle every program that is meant to help them. But they are more concerned with fighting “wokism” and “socialism”
yesb 11mo ago
> Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid? Government structure and basic economics. Fire depts are mainly funded by local taxes (property, sales) so low-risk rural places can't afford a fully staffed fire dept >Why should any company create software that they can’t do at a profit - ie rewriting software for a new federal standard? Where was it stated that any of these acquired companies were unprofitable? It's heavily implied that these PE firms are simply maximizing profit through anti-competitive behavior
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  Again why is that? Teachers are funded by local and state taxes and (did?) get federal grants. The article mentioned that these same firefighters are having to do fundraisers for equipment maintenance I’m honing in for the software that what they cancelled would have to be completely rewritten to comply with new federal standards. Would everyone be happier if this was funded by YC hoping the company would be acquired by a larger company and then you see a post about “Our Amazing Journey” when it’s discontinued?
  - duxup 11mo ago
    Teachers get used every school day, all day. Firefighters in areas where there are a low number of events very much not so.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      What are your feelings about being on call as a software developer because software incidents don’t often happen at night? Would you expect to be paid for it? Or at least a higher than $0 salary?
      - duxup 11mo ago
        Do you feel like these volunteers are being taken advantage of or something? I doubt they do... they all have jobs and lives otherwise, they can simply not do the thing.
giantg2 11mo ago
"Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid?" Rural areas don't have the population, revenue, and incident frequency to justify full-time services.
unethical_ban 11mo ago
Not mentioned in your comment is the part where the same greedy PE bought up multiple competing pieces of software in this niche.
neves 11mo ago
I’ve always thought volunteer firefighters are one of the coolest parts of American life. Neighbors stepping up to protect each other and their communities, even putting themselves in danger sometimes. That kind of teamwork and courage is what really makes a country strong.

NordSteve 11mo ago

I'm guessing you don't live in a rural area in the US.

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
I grew up in South GA and my family still lives there. I got the hell out of dodge the week after graduating from college in 1996. I said in another reply, I’m all for the state and the federal government helping rural America where their own tax base isn’t strong enough. I’m also for universal health care that would help rural areas far more than me. I wouldn’t complain about my taxes paying for it. It’s rural America that keeps voting for local, state, and federal politicians that put them in this place.
- gottorf 11mo ago
  > It’s rural America that keeps voting for local, state, and federal politicians that put them in this place. In my experience, not everyone's primary policy goal is to ensure that as much taxpayer money as possible gets redistributed in their favor. Of course, this isn't to say that the problem you described (of people wanting government services but not wanting to pay for it) does not exist, but I find that to be applicable broadly, not just to rural America.
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    Agree, I live in (fairly) rural area and most of the people out here don't want much more from the government but maybe roads to drive on, and to be left alone.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      Are you saying they are going to refuse Trump’s bailouts for farmers? Are you saying they don’t want hospitals near by because that means they would have to accept government help? I’m sure even providing basic infrastructure is coming from funding from sources outside of their community
      - SoftTalker 11mo ago
        I don't know any real farmers. Have a few neighbors with small herds of cows but that's not their only or even primary source of income. I try not to talk politics much. People live out here knowing full well that the nearest hospital is 30 minutes away and if they need to call an ambulance it's probably going to be at least 15-30 minutes, maybe longer, before it shows up.
        raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        But you do know human nature. Do you think conservative farmers who are struggling are going to refuse to take government funds? If someone is having a heart attack are they going to refuse to go to hospital that is backed by the federal government?
        SoftTalker 11mo ago
        I doubt they would refuse government money, IDK. It's kind of how I feel about Social Security. I'm not going to refuse it, especially since I have paid into it my entire working life. But I'd rather it didn't exist, and I know it isn't sustainable.
- pessimizer 11mo ago
  Their choice is between two private clubs who both cut services when in power, and are both taking huge amounts of money from private equity. The Democrats spent the beginning of the 2016 cycle all pretending to be for universal health care (literally the only reason why Buttigieg and Harris got on stage), then spent the rest of the cycle dishonestly campaigning against it while fixing a primary. As soon as Bernie lost, health insurance and healthcare stocks had their highest stock price bump in history. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-super-tuesday-2020-election-healthcare-medicare-for-all-aca-a9376136.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... I agree with your opinions on government funding, I just find it gross when it's used as an excuse to put the blame on the powerless. The powerless are not powerless because they choose to be, they're powerless because they are restrained by the powerful. Not only is the information they receive about the world restricted and their educations propagandistic, but if they voted for what the powerful didn't want, their vote would be ignored. On the other hand, you've been convinced to blame the powerless for the crimes of the powerful, so I don't know how you're any less of a sucker. I guess you're wealthier than they are, so maybe you're a support system for the people doing the suckering. edit: I had to add the last, because this type of argument is something I consistently hear from people who are paid to do the exploiting. If you're a thief, you figure out a way to blame the people you steal from.
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    Yes because in 2020 when middle of the road Biden barely eked out a win against Trump, I’m sure Bernie would have won. Bernie’s ideas were way too left field for me and I consider myself to be a bleeding heart capitalist pig - ie let companies make money, tax them and use the money to provide a safety net. Also take away the idea of your insurance being tied to your employment
    - cindyllm 11mo ago
      [dead]
lkbm 11mo ago
I do. We have paid police, because we want law and order. We have paid dump/collection center workers, because you need a place to take trash. We have paid teachers and school staff, because we want a good education for our kids. We have paid road maintenance workers, because it's really helpful to have properly maintaind roads. We have paid librarians, because libraries are one of the core community centers in the area. We have paid animal control workers because rabies is scary. We pay for ambulance service because sometimes you need medical attention asap. And we have volunteer fire fighters, because stopping fires, in a rural, wildfire prone area is, what? Optional? Just a side gig? Something you do just for fun? A big part of the confusion people have is that "volunteer" fire departments often include pay. It's not a full-time job, but they at least get paid for their calls. That's not always true, though, and it's weird. It's an artifact of history that our different layers of government have divvied up basic services amongst themselves in a way that leaves fire fighting as a local concern that may or may not involve paid professionals, while the sheriff and local police will be paid professionals, the roads will be maintained, and the school will have teachers, and principals, and custodians, and people running the cafeteria, and so on. Why do we not have "volunteer police force"? Because we treat it as a full-time position for career police officers. It's weird that this one, very critical service uses "volunteers," while most of the others are full-time, paid positions, and I find it confusing and weird, despite having grown up in rural NC, just outside a town of under a thousand, and now live at the other end of rural NC, outside the limits of a different town of under thousand people.

toast0 11mo ago

> Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid? In urban/suburban areas, you need firefighters based on number of population, more or less, which isn't too bad to pay for, more people means a little bit from everyone adds up. For rural areas, you need figherfighters based on area. If you had the right per capita fire equipment and personnel, they'd be spread so thin they may as well not exist. Volunteerism at least gets you affordable personnel, but you still need to fundraise for equipment and operational expenses. Edit: also, the call volume is very low. Your properly staffed fire department would be nearly always idle. With volunteers on call, they can just go about thei usual things, and if a call comes in, they can respond from where they are.

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
I’ve got an idea: Every city and county belongs to a state with a broader tax base. Every state is a part of the richest country in the world. I’m sure you see where I’m getting at here. But rural America calls that “socialism”.
- LunaSea 11mo ago
  Rich how? What's the budget deficit again?
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    But yet we find money for the largest military in the world - and much of that goes to military equipment and bases that military leaders say they don’t need and for tax cuts. How much money do you think it would take to fund the shortfall for every rural fire department?
  - acdha 11mo ago
    Deficits are a policy choice, not an inevitability. The budget was balanced at the turn of the century but Republicans under G. W. Bush decided that meant they could cut taxes, especially for the rich. They did that again for both Trump terms, before COVID. Unlike the financial crisis or pandemic, there was no emergency driving those decisions and the massive debt increases were entirely voluntary.

ggfdh 11mo ago

> too cheap Too poor

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
The other half is stop voting for politicians on the state and federal level who explicitly try to dismantle every program that is meant to help them. But they are more concerned with fighting “wokism” and “socialism”

yesb 11mo ago

> Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid? Government structure and basic economics. Fire depts are mainly funded by local taxes (property, sales) so low-risk rural places can't afford a fully staffed fire dept >Why should any company create software that they can’t do at a profit - ie rewriting software for a new federal standard? Where was it stated that any of these acquired companies were unprofitable? It's heavily implied that these PE firms are simply maximizing profit through anti-competitive behavior

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
Again why is that? Teachers are funded by local and state taxes and (did?) get federal grants. The article mentioned that these same firefighters are having to do fundraisers for equipment maintenance I’m honing in for the software that what they cancelled would have to be completely rewritten to comply with new federal standards. Would everyone be happier if this was funded by YC hoping the company would be acquired by a larger company and then you see a post about “Our Amazing Journey” when it’s discontinued?
- duxup 11mo ago
  Teachers get used every school day, all day. Firefighters in areas where there are a low number of events very much not so.
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    What are your feelings about being on call as a software developer because software incidents don’t often happen at night? Would you expect to be paid for it? Or at least a higher than $0 salary?
    - duxup 11mo ago
      Do you feel like these volunteers are being taken advantage of or something? I doubt they do... they all have jobs and lives otherwise, they can simply not do the thing.

giantg2 11mo ago

"Why are firefighters volunteers anyway instead of getting paid?" Rural areas don't have the population, revenue, and incident frequency to justify full-time services.

unethical_ban 11mo ago

Not mentioned in your comment is the part where the same greedy PE bought up multiple competing pieces of software in this niche.

neves 11mo ago

I’ve always thought volunteer firefighters are one of the coolest parts of American life. Neighbors stepping up to protect each other and their communities, even putting themselves in danger sometimes. That kind of teamwork and courage is what really makes a country strong.