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> Generally, I would recommend to stop associating strict > hierarchy with Germany. I work for a French/German business, I live in The Netherlands but I'm orig

> Generally, I would recommend to stop associating strict > hierarchy with Germany. I work for a French/German business, I live in The Netherlands but I'm originally British. I work daily with a team from UK, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark and France. The German team is by far the most hierarchical. After living in The Netherlands for the last several years it really makes an impression working with Germans. For example if there's a problem, and it's the responsibility of the manager, but the manager is away: nothing is done. No-one criticises bad management. They do what they're told. No questions. In my experience of The Netherlands it's different: if someone makes a stupid decision, you go drink a cup of coffee with them and explain it to them. You don't hide behind organisational lines. It could be a company thing: but I've worked with Germans in the past, and we had the same issues then (granted, this was back when I only spoke one language). > On a side note, be careful when forming an opinion about > Europe if your only fluent European language is English. Good point. I'm fluent in Dutch and English. Becoming fluent in your 2nd language changes your perspective, broadens it. For me it has stopped me making assumptions: experience first.

sentenza 14y ago
Ah, I think I understand what is going on. I've never been in a situation like you describe but I have heard from friends and family about such work environments. Here is my take on what causes the kind of behaviour you describe: The flipside of German teamwork culture is that it is very hard to restore a dysfunctional team back to how it "should be" once the trust between engineers/workers and managers is lost. After a few instances of people who tried to contribute getting burnt and a few seemingly random but destructive decisions by management, people go into "bunker mode". This means: Serious ass-covering and everybody just doing as they're told (the term for this last symptom is "Dienst nach Vorschrift"). For practical purposes, this is identical to a strict hierarchy, as you will have to go through official channels to get anything done. For a engineering team or engineering department, this can cause long-term damage. People in Germany are much more reluctant to quit a safe job and search for another than people in the US, so the disgruntled workers will just stay there and perpetuate the bad situation. There is actually a valuable lesson here for anybody that comes into a managerial position within a German company: In any large organization there is a team or two that has these kind of problems at any time. Hovever, if you get the feeling that this is the rule rather than the exception, the culture of that organization is dysfunctional and in nine cases out of ten that organization is also underperforming.

sentenza 14y ago

Ah, I think I understand what is going on. I've never been in a situation like you describe but I have heard from friends and family about such work environments. Here is my take on what causes the kind of behaviour you describe: The flipside of German teamwork culture is that it is very hard to restore a dysfunctional team back to how it "should be" once the trust between engineers/workers and managers is lost. After a few instances of people who tried to contribute getting burnt and a few seemingly random but destructive decisions by management, people go into "bunker mode". This means: Serious ass-covering and everybody just doing as they're told (the term for this last symptom is "Dienst nach Vorschrift"). For practical purposes, this is identical to a strict hierarchy, as you will have to go through official channels to get anything done. For a engineering team or engineering department, this can cause long-term damage. People in Germany are much more reluctant to quit a safe job and search for another than people in the US, so the disgruntled workers will just stay there and perpetuate the bad situation. There is actually a valuable lesson here for anybody that comes into a managerial position within a German company: In any large organization there is a team or two that has these kind of problems at any time. Hovever, if you get the feeling that this is the rule rather than the exception, the culture of that organization is dysfunctional and in nine cases out of ten that organization is also underperforming.