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Apropos of our ongoing patent debate: Interestingly, the design wasn't patented and companies like National Semiconductor and Fairchild soon released

Apropos of our ongoing patent debate: Interestingly, the design wasn't patented and companies like National Semiconductor and Fairchild soon released their own versions. This helped to push the price down and ensured that the chip would become ubiquitous in the decades that followed.

001sky 14y ago
Camenzind went on to have a long and successful career, but none of his subsequent designs would impact the world like his simple little timer. In fact, IEEE Spectrum named it one of 25 microchips that shook the world in their May 2009 issue. -- Continued from above. Interesting, note the incentives vs the output.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  I'm not sure what either of you are attempting to demonstrate with these excerpts. I read the fact that he didn't patent the 555 with some disappointment. He had a successful career, good; and yet, he deserved to capture some of the marginal product of his labor, not simply to go on to be promoted super-Executive-Senior-Engineer-Level-XII. In this case, he did later start and sell a company after he left Signetics, and his reputation from the 555 timer surely helped him to success in that. But to my mind not patenting the design clearly made it harder for him to partake in the direct rewards he deserved for creating such a useful circuit.
  - kderbe 14y ago
    Those excerpts demonstrate that the 555 timer became significant in part because it was not patented. You could even argue that Camenzind wouldn't have been eulogized for his invention of the 555 timer if it wasn't for its success due to widespread copying.
    - jessedhillon 14y ago
      That would be a specious and incredibly naive argument. First A (unpatented invention), then B (success), ergo A causes B -- is that the proposal here? Wouldn't I just have to show the existence of only one invention which became popular, despite being patented, to disprove this? (If I didn't reject it on the grounds that it is fallacious reasoning) Yes, you could argue that he would not have been eulogized, but you would need to have a better argument and it would be speculative at best. Edit: sorry it's late, not trying to be a dick.
      - 001sky 14y ago
        That would be a specious and incredibly naive argument The invention is before the patent. You're missing that. It is important. > Invention | patent
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - kderbe 14y ago
        No, you're right, it's a specious argument. While digging for data to back it up, I found this interesting quote from Camenzind: There are no patents on the 555. Signetics did not want to apply for a patent. You see, the situation with patents in Silicon Valley in 1970 was entirely different than it is now. Everybody was stealing from everybody else. I designed the 555 Signetics produced it, and six months, or before a year later, National had it, Fairchild had it, and nobody paid any attention to patents. The people at Signetics told me they didn’t want to apply for a patent, because what would happen if they tried to enforce that patent, is the people from Fairchild would come back with a Manhattan-sized telephone book and say “These are our patents, now let’s see what you’re violating”. It was a house of cards – if you blew on it, the whole thing collapsed.[1] That's strong evidence that the lack of patent for the 555 was unrelated to its particular success, so I admit I was wrong about that. But if Camenzind is correct in his history, then it sounds like Silicon Valley had a solution 40 years ago to the patent mess: pretend they don't exist! [1] http://www.semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/LectureHall/Camenzind/Camenzind_Page9.htm http://www.semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/LectureHall/C...
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    Probably wouldn't have amounted to much, though. If Signetics had patented it, purchasing it from him, he would have gotten what, maybe a few hundred dollars? That's about what most engineers receive for their patents from the employing company. Now, if he had left Signetics and founded another company to create the 555, then he might have been rolling in dough.
    - pcamenzind 14y ago
      But instead he created a company that pioneered the concept of semi-custom integrated circuits, and rolled in the dough. :) I think the mentality that he was somehow cheated out of something would have been seriously lost on him. He did what he did because he loved it and the money was secondary.
  - axusgrad 14y ago
    It definitely led to less rewards for him, but increased rewards for society. I wouldn't expect any for-profit business to be more concerned about society, though, strange that it wasn't patented.
  - pcamenzind 14y ago
    Hans took on the 555 timer project after he had already started his own business and did it on contract. The contract helped him survive (with a wife and 4 young kids) while he built his business. I never once heard him comment on disappointment about not getting royalties on the 555 timer, in fact, I never once heard him mention anything about royalties on any of the work he did for other companies during the 60's and early 70's. I don't think it was in the mentality of era. In the time since then, the success and popularity of the 555 timer was enough of a reward for him.

001sky 14y ago

Camenzind went on to have a long and successful career, but none of his subsequent designs would impact the world like his simple little timer. In fact, IEEE Spectrum named it one of 25 microchips that shook the world in their May 2009 issue. -- Continued from above. Interesting, note the incentives vs the output.

jessedhillon 14y ago
I'm not sure what either of you are attempting to demonstrate with these excerpts. I read the fact that he didn't patent the 555 with some disappointment. He had a successful career, good; and yet, he deserved to capture some of the marginal product of his labor, not simply to go on to be promoted super-Executive-Senior-Engineer-Level-XII. In this case, he did later start and sell a company after he left Signetics, and his reputation from the 555 timer surely helped him to success in that. But to my mind not patenting the design clearly made it harder for him to partake in the direct rewards he deserved for creating such a useful circuit.
- kderbe 14y ago
  Those excerpts demonstrate that the 555 timer became significant in part because it was not patented. You could even argue that Camenzind wouldn't have been eulogized for his invention of the 555 timer if it wasn't for its success due to widespread copying.
  - jessedhillon 14y ago
    That would be a specious and incredibly naive argument. First A (unpatented invention), then B (success), ergo A causes B -- is that the proposal here? Wouldn't I just have to show the existence of only one invention which became popular, despite being patented, to disprove this? (If I didn't reject it on the grounds that it is fallacious reasoning) Yes, you could argue that he would not have been eulogized, but you would need to have a better argument and it would be speculative at best. Edit: sorry it's late, not trying to be a dick.
    - 001sky 14y ago
      That would be a specious and incredibly naive argument The invention is before the patent. You're missing that. It is important. > Invention | patent
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - kderbe 14y ago
      No, you're right, it's a specious argument. While digging for data to back it up, I found this interesting quote from Camenzind: There are no patents on the 555. Signetics did not want to apply for a patent. You see, the situation with patents in Silicon Valley in 1970 was entirely different than it is now. Everybody was stealing from everybody else. I designed the 555 Signetics produced it, and six months, or before a year later, National had it, Fairchild had it, and nobody paid any attention to patents. The people at Signetics told me they didn’t want to apply for a patent, because what would happen if they tried to enforce that patent, is the people from Fairchild would come back with a Manhattan-sized telephone book and say “These are our patents, now let’s see what you’re violating”. It was a house of cards – if you blew on it, the whole thing collapsed.[1] That's strong evidence that the lack of patent for the 555 was unrelated to its particular success, so I admit I was wrong about that. But if Camenzind is correct in his history, then it sounds like Silicon Valley had a solution 40 years ago to the patent mess: pretend they don't exist! [1] http://www.semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/LectureHall/Camenzind/Camenzind_Page9.htm http://www.semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/LectureHall/C...
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  Probably wouldn't have amounted to much, though. If Signetics had patented it, purchasing it from him, he would have gotten what, maybe a few hundred dollars? That's about what most engineers receive for their patents from the employing company. Now, if he had left Signetics and founded another company to create the 555, then he might have been rolling in dough.
  - pcamenzind 14y ago
    But instead he created a company that pioneered the concept of semi-custom integrated circuits, and rolled in the dough. :) I think the mentality that he was somehow cheated out of something would have been seriously lost on him. He did what he did because he loved it and the money was secondary.
- axusgrad 14y ago
  It definitely led to less rewards for him, but increased rewards for society. I wouldn't expect any for-profit business to be more concerned about society, though, strange that it wasn't patented.
- pcamenzind 14y ago
  Hans took on the 555 timer project after he had already started his own business and did it on contract. The contract helped him survive (with a wife and 4 young kids) while he built his business. I never once heard him comment on disappointment about not getting royalties on the 555 timer, in fact, I never once heard him mention anything about royalties on any of the work he did for other companies during the 60's and early 70's. I don't think it was in the mentality of era. In the time since then, the success and popularity of the 555 timer was enough of a reward for him.