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The “20th century atrocity denial” comparison is disgusting and transparent. Holocaust denial is rejected because it contradicts a mountain of primary evidence.

The “20th century atrocity denial” comparison is disgusting and transparent. Holocaust denial is rejected because it contradicts a mountain of primary evidence. You are doing the opposite. You are trying to manufacture certainty where the documentation is missing, then calling anyone who asks for records a “denialist.” On the Truman claim, you keep saying “adequate evidence” while producing none. The best you have is a biography by Truman’s daughter decades later that does not cite sources and newspaper blurbs repeating those claims. That is not “well documented.” That is the stuff of conspiracy theory. Here is what you still have not provided: a contemporaneous Secret Service report, a White House mail log entry, an FBI memo, a case number, a preserved device, photographs, lab notes, arrests, indictments, or any archival file tying an actual bomb to Lehi. In fact, a FOIA request to the Secret Service for records of this alleged incident came back “no responsive documents,” and the Truman Library reports it has nothing and explicitly notes that Margaret Truman’s biographies rarely cite sources. So no, you do not get to say “adequate evidence” and then hide behind moral outrage. Your next move is equally sloppy. “They operated with the permission of the government.” In 1947 there was no Israeli government. When the state did exist, it disbanded Lehi, arrested members, and fought Irgun in the Altalena affair. If you have a primary document tying a Truman mail bomb to Lehi, post it. If you do not, drop the Holocaust baiting and admit you are repeating an allegation you cannot substantiate. And your finale, that Irgun and Lehi represent “the nature and spirit of the Israeli people today,” is just collectivist bigotry. “Terror cells are usually small,” you say, and then you claim two fringe militias somehow define millions of Israelis. That is not analysis. It is an ethnic smear.

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viccis 10mo ago
>The “20th century atrocity denial” comparison is disgusting and transparent I was talking about the Holodomor, obviously.
- richardfeynman 10mo ago
  “Obviously” is a nice rewrite, but you did not say Holodomor. Holodomor or Holocaust, the move is the same: you are trying to smear “denialism” over a claim you cannot document. Denialism is rejecting mountains of primary evidence. I am asking you for primary evidence and you have produced none. Post a contemporaneous Secret Service or FBI record tying a Truman bomb to Lehi, or admit you are repeating hearsay. Either way, I appreciate you providing a written record of your conspiracy theories and holocaust bating here on Hacker News.
  - viccis 10mo ago
    If you know history, it's quite obvious. The Holodomor is an alleged genocide with no absolute evidence that it was planned and intentional, just a great deal of credible hearsay and correlating patterns of behavior. Much like there's no reason to think the allegation made that Israel was sending a mailbomb to Truman was false given all the other Western politicians they were mailbombing at that time.
    - richardfeynman 10mo ago
      Thanks for finally stating your epistemic standard out loud: “credible hearsay and correlating patterns” is enough for you to accuse Jews of trying to assassinate a U.S. president. That is not “knowing history.” That is how conspiracy theories work. "Quite obvious" and "no reason to think false" don’t count as proof. You started with a claim you probably genuinely believed in, realized there was no evidence for it, and instead of admitting to that, reverted to trolling. That's bad faith discussion and against HN rules. I’m not playing “atrocity analogy” whack-a-mole as you pivot to minimizing the Holodomor to cover for a claim you cannot document. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence.
      - viccis 10mo ago
        I didn't accuse "Jews" of trying to assassinate a US president, I accused Israel of doing so. >You started with a claim you probably genuinely believed in, realized there was no evidence for it, and instead of admitting to that, reverted to trolling. I still believe it, as the claim was from Margaret Truman Daniel, who had first hand knowledge of what happened to her parents. You clearly don't agree, despite Israel having done the same thing at the same time to other Western politicians. There's no "trolling" or violation of "HN rules" going on, other than perhaps the antisemitic conflation of Jewishness with Israel, particularly when it comes to who is blamed for the terrorism committed by the latter. It is a form of ethnoracial essentialism and bigotry that also impacts Muslims in the US and other ethnic and racial groups (such as the targeting of Chinese citizens in Indonesia as a form of blame for the country of China's actions).

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viccis 10mo ago

>The “20th century atrocity denial” comparison is disgusting and transparent I was talking about the Holodomor, obviously.

richardfeynman 10mo ago
“Obviously” is a nice rewrite, but you did not say Holodomor. Holodomor or Holocaust, the move is the same: you are trying to smear “denialism” over a claim you cannot document. Denialism is rejecting mountains of primary evidence. I am asking you for primary evidence and you have produced none. Post a contemporaneous Secret Service or FBI record tying a Truman bomb to Lehi, or admit you are repeating hearsay. Either way, I appreciate you providing a written record of your conspiracy theories and holocaust bating here on Hacker News.
- viccis 10mo ago
  If you know history, it's quite obvious. The Holodomor is an alleged genocide with no absolute evidence that it was planned and intentional, just a great deal of credible hearsay and correlating patterns of behavior. Much like there's no reason to think the allegation made that Israel was sending a mailbomb to Truman was false given all the other Western politicians they were mailbombing at that time.
  - richardfeynman 10mo ago
    Thanks for finally stating your epistemic standard out loud: “credible hearsay and correlating patterns” is enough for you to accuse Jews of trying to assassinate a U.S. president. That is not “knowing history.” That is how conspiracy theories work. "Quite obvious" and "no reason to think false" don’t count as proof. You started with a claim you probably genuinely believed in, realized there was no evidence for it, and instead of admitting to that, reverted to trolling. That's bad faith discussion and against HN rules. I’m not playing “atrocity analogy” whack-a-mole as you pivot to minimizing the Holodomor to cover for a claim you cannot document. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence.
    - viccis 10mo ago
      I didn't accuse "Jews" of trying to assassinate a US president, I accused Israel of doing so. >You started with a claim you probably genuinely believed in, realized there was no evidence for it, and instead of admitting to that, reverted to trolling. I still believe it, as the claim was from Margaret Truman Daniel, who had first hand knowledge of what happened to her parents. You clearly don't agree, despite Israel having done the same thing at the same time to other Western politicians. There's no "trolling" or violation of "HN rules" going on, other than perhaps the antisemitic conflation of Jewishness with Israel, particularly when it comes to who is blamed for the terrorism committed by the latter. It is a form of ethnoracial essentialism and bigotry that also impacts Muslims in the US and other ethnic and racial groups (such as the targeting of Chinese citizens in Indonesia as a form of blame for the country of China's actions).