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Reminds me of the meme "reality has a well-known liberal bias". I don't know or suspect whether that's true or not. But I have noticed personally in life that w

Reminds me of the meme "reality has a well-known liberal bias". I don't know or suspect whether that's true or not. But I have noticed personally in life that whenever someone is both intelligent, educated, is compassionate/empathic and does long-term thinking, that person also seems to be "liberal", progressive or left-leaning, politics wise. Perhaps not always. But most of the time, based on my observations. I think if you have those traits but take away compassion/empathy, and focus more on short-term/short-range thinking, you're more likely to be "conservative", or right-leaning.

waterlesscloud 14y ago
What would you say about the tens of millions of Americans who are educated, religious, and give hundreds of millions of dollars to build schools, clinics, and missions around the world? Are they short-sighted or lacking compassion? I think this kind of binary political thinking is the most insidious thought virus we face. Far more dangerous than whether or not someone believes in evolution, because it separates us and makes us believe that the "others" have traits that they really don't have. It's awful.
- mkramlich 14y ago
  You write as if you've somehow refuted or contradicted my words, but you haven't. I recommend looking again, more closely, at what I said. I choose words carefully. But I do understand the idea that religious people can be compassionate and give money away. So can atheists. So can intelligent people. So can both more and less educated people. It's orthogonal. And I never cited religion. And I was speaking in general terms based on direct, personal observation. Also I for one do not engage in "binary" political thinking -- not when I'm actually thinking internally -- though it's often useful when speaking in order to average out details and identify patterns and then express them concisely in public conversation. And as an additional point, if by 'mission' you mean a religious mission, then I'd say that I don't consider that to be a good thing. It's a bad thing. It spreads superstition, fear, make believe, childish mental states, obedience to arbitrary authority, silly rituals and fuzzy irrational thinking. Yes it also teaches relaxing and addictive chants and tunes, and feel good phrases. And the good parts, anything dealing with peace, compassion, charity, with community interaction, can all be done without the negative that comes from the religious baggage attached to it. Also, like your complaint about binary thinking being a bad thing. I don't think education is a binary quality. You're not either educated or not. There are many intermediate degrees and shades of grey, and types. So while I do think someone can be somewhat educated and religious, I don't think they're extremely well educated or intelligent. At least not both. Otherwise one would see that that particular emperor wears no clothes. But of course this is just the conclusion reached by many of us, not all of us. To each his own.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    Yes. Precisely. It's orthogonal. Like compassion and conservatism or short-term thinking and liberalism. Honestly, I disagree that those things are at all related. I think that's the sort of thing you get in political echo chambers, but not in reality. I meant mission more in the sense of centers intended to relieve poverty, hunger, etc, but it is a word with different meanings, so I see your take on it as well. I do think, though, that if you think belief in religion is a matter of whether the emperor has any clothes that you're looking at it wrong. There are deeper meanings and purposes to faith that many intelligent and well-educated people choose to pursue. They aren't doing it blindly, they know what they're doing, and they have their reasons. I'm strongly agnostic (to the point of being ridiculous about it), but I've encountered a wide enough variety of religious people to respect their views.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

What would you say about the tens of millions of Americans who are educated, religious, and give hundreds of millions of dollars to build schools, clinics, and missions around the world? Are they short-sighted or lacking compassion? I think this kind of binary political thinking is the most insidious thought virus we face. Far more dangerous than whether or not someone believes in evolution, because it separates us and makes us believe that the "others" have traits that they really don't have. It's awful.

mkramlich 14y ago
You write as if you've somehow refuted or contradicted my words, but you haven't. I recommend looking again, more closely, at what I said. I choose words carefully. But I do understand the idea that religious people can be compassionate and give money away. So can atheists. So can intelligent people. So can both more and less educated people. It's orthogonal. And I never cited religion. And I was speaking in general terms based on direct, personal observation. Also I for one do not engage in "binary" political thinking -- not when I'm actually thinking internally -- though it's often useful when speaking in order to average out details and identify patterns and then express them concisely in public conversation. And as an additional point, if by 'mission' you mean a religious mission, then I'd say that I don't consider that to be a good thing. It's a bad thing. It spreads superstition, fear, make believe, childish mental states, obedience to arbitrary authority, silly rituals and fuzzy irrational thinking. Yes it also teaches relaxing and addictive chants and tunes, and feel good phrases. And the good parts, anything dealing with peace, compassion, charity, with community interaction, can all be done without the negative that comes from the religious baggage attached to it. Also, like your complaint about binary thinking being a bad thing. I don't think education is a binary quality. You're not either educated or not. There are many intermediate degrees and shades of grey, and types. So while I do think someone can be somewhat educated and religious, I don't think they're extremely well educated or intelligent. At least not both. Otherwise one would see that that particular emperor wears no clothes. But of course this is just the conclusion reached by many of us, not all of us. To each his own.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Yes. Precisely. It's orthogonal. Like compassion and conservatism or short-term thinking and liberalism. Honestly, I disagree that those things are at all related. I think that's the sort of thing you get in political echo chambers, but not in reality. I meant mission more in the sense of centers intended to relieve poverty, hunger, etc, but it is a word with different meanings, so I see your take on it as well. I do think, though, that if you think belief in religion is a matter of whether the emperor has any clothes that you're looking at it wrong. There are deeper meanings and purposes to faith that many intelligent and well-educated people choose to pursue. They aren't doing it blindly, they know what they're doing, and they have their reasons. I'm strongly agnostic (to the point of being ridiculous about it), but I've encountered a wide enough variety of religious people to respect their views.