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I think it is the fact that python packaging has been problematic for some time. setuptools/easy_install, pip/pipx, poetry, conda, uv all promise they will be t

by fridder 10mo ago

I think it is the fact that python packaging has been problematic for some time. setuptools/easy_install, pip/pipx, poetry, conda, uv all promise they will be the thing that "fixes" it

paulddraper 10mo ago
What does Bash use for its packaging? Use that.
- bccdee 10mo ago
  Ok tbh bash uses the system package manager to install command-line utilities, and using the system package manager for python packages HAS been tried, and the parallel use of system packaging and independent package managers is part of why python package distribution is such a mess.
  - skydhash 10mo ago
    Why using independent package managers alongside the system one? I think the introduction of non system packagers is what brought us the whole mess we are in. Most system packagers allows for custom repositories.
    - bccdee 10mo ago
      Because the system package repository doesn't package everything & isn't always up to date. And if you introduce other repos to fix this, then you have an ecosystem with multiple instances of the same package distributed at different versions in different repositories, and God help you if you need multiple versions of one package, or if you need a different version of Python entirely. Nix could do it, but not anything else. No—system python is for the system's scripts, and user projects should have their dependencies sandboxed in a virtual environment. That's the only model that really works.
bigstrat2003 10mo ago
Eh. Python packaging is just fine. Set up a venv, install with pip, done. I think that the difficulty of installing Python packages is wildly overblown on this site.
- bdangubic 10mo ago
  not “AI Bubble” overblown but close
- SahAssar 10mo ago
  It's not overblown. There's 10 different package managers and none of them seem to have any common conventions. To even run a script you need to setup a venv and enter it by sourcing scripts. Try to move a venv, it breaks. Try to understand how/what/where it installs things its a black box if you are not "in" the ecosystem. Node seems easy in comparison. I hate how python makes it so hard to use.

by fridder 10mo ago

I think it is the fact that python packaging has been problematic for some time. setuptools/easy_install, pip/pipx, poetry, conda, uv all promise they will be the thing that "fixes" it

paulddraper 10mo ago

What does Bash use for its packaging? Use that.

bccdee 10mo ago
Ok tbh bash uses the system package manager to install command-line utilities, and using the system package manager for python packages HAS been tried, and the parallel use of system packaging and independent package managers is part of why python package distribution is such a mess.
- skydhash 10mo ago
  Why using independent package managers alongside the system one? I think the introduction of non system packagers is what brought us the whole mess we are in. Most system packagers allows for custom repositories.
  - bccdee 10mo ago
    Because the system package repository doesn't package everything & isn't always up to date. And if you introduce other repos to fix this, then you have an ecosystem with multiple instances of the same package distributed at different versions in different repositories, and God help you if you need multiple versions of one package, or if you need a different version of Python entirely. Nix could do it, but not anything else. No—system python is for the system's scripts, and user projects should have their dependencies sandboxed in a virtual environment. That's the only model that really works.

bigstrat2003 10mo ago

Eh. Python packaging is just fine. Set up a venv, install with pip, done. I think that the difficulty of installing Python packages is wildly overblown on this site.

bdangubic 10mo ago
not “AI Bubble” overblown but close
SahAssar 10mo ago
It's not overblown. There's 10 different package managers and none of them seem to have any common conventions. To even run a script you need to setup a venv and enter it by sourcing scripts. Try to move a venv, it breaks. Try to understand how/what/where it installs things its a black box if you are not "in" the ecosystem. Node seems easy in comparison. I hate how python makes it so hard to use.