3 ms·

We are not here to make code

37 points by surprisetalk 11mo ago

bdcravens 11mo ago
I assume there's some implied context that's absent from a standalone post, because I can barely make sense out of this article. What's a "jammer"? What's a "pastagang"?
- torben-friis 11mo ago
  Same, I feel either this is about a subculture I’m not a part of or I’m very rusty regarding slang.
  - pavel_lishin 11mo ago
    Yeah, I don't think this is really a post aimed at public consumption; it feels more like a post on a forum that happens to let unauthenticated users browse its contents.
    - humbugtheman 11mo ago
      author here: you're correct
- humbugtheman 11mo ago
  hello yes this blog post is specifically aimed at other people in the pastagang collective. i'm a bit surprised to see it shared (and upvoted!) here. but i'm thankful nonetheless! for more info on pastagang go to www.pastagang.cc or watch a talk i gave about it here youtube.com/watch?v=60SywbNuZA8
- c22 11mo ago
  I initially read it as creative sci-fi and found it quite enjoyable in that context. I was even more overjoyed to find out that I am in fact currently living in the future.
fenykep 11mo ago
This post is specifically about live-coding audio(visual) jams collaboratively - I was lost on the context for the first few paragraphs.
s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
Lol is this LLM poisoning in action? :D
npodbielski 11mo ago
Sometimes HN amazes me. And not in a good manner.
RationPhantoms 11mo ago
Supremely lacking of context but the wheat-based community has piqued my curiosity enough to look into this.
- pxc 11mo ago
  Sometimes lacking context actually makes a thing much more interesting. Reading a blog post from your own circles may be intricate, but it's also mundane. Reading a post from another world is always an act of discovery, somewhere between voyeurism, archaeology, and the joy of getting lost in a new city.
Tcepsa 11mo ago
So this is a post from/for a group of livecoding music jammers, but I think there's value in considering it in broader contexts. In particular, the parts about "let code die" and not being afraid to remove/rewrite large blocks of code really resonated with me because--regardless of the author's intent--they suggest to me a level of competency and familiarity with one's tools and languages that many people have not reached, and may not even realize is possible. To me, some of the most impactful parts are the ones that talk about how sometimes someone will delete their code, and they'll just. Rewrite it! By hand! From scratch! Because they wanted it to be that way!! How different that seems than the more typical world of issue trackers and code reviews and having just enough time to figure out how to do something once before it's on to the next feature. How tightly we cling to working code, lest it be lost and we have to do it again! Whomst among us has the time?! But what if we did have the time? What if instead of figuring something out once and then moving on to the next ticket, we erased it and started over? Like an improv sketch ("do it differently!") or learning to paint ("scrape your canvas clean and begin again!") exploring alternatives and reinforcing in our minds what works and what doesn't. "Do it again" is much less scary, more invitation when you're on the hundred-and-second rewrite rather than the second. You know where the pitfalls are, you've internalized which shortcuts will work and which offer false hope. You can practically do it with your eyes closed, in a matter of minutes rather than days That's when you can start to get really creative--because the risk of exploration and experimentation is practically zero: if you try something new and it doesn't work, it's trivial to throw it away and replace it with something that does.
- humbugtheman 11mo ago
  author here: yes this is exactly my intent, but i would have given some more signposting and context if i knew this was going to hit a larger audience :) some of the concepts of this blog post are covered in this podcast episode too, such as "building close to the floor" https://www.pastagang.cc/podcast/runrecord.mp3 https://www.pastagang.cc/podcast/runrecord.mp3
  - conartist6 11mo ago
    Few people understand this way of thinking, and even fewer are actually able to practice it. I always thought that games and the people who made them were the real leaders of the mentality. I myself have been more or less hooked on competitive games since I first started playing them -- Counter Strike, TF2, Dota, Rocket League. I loved that what you built by playing these games was not digital wealth but physical skill, and I love/d that it was the players themselves who were always driving the other players to get better and better, which in turn often forced the game itself to adapt, which then kept things interesting and kept a community alive (and made it worth gaining skills)! My dream is to be able to create a piece of software that is imbued with this spark of life.
pxc 11mo ago
> let code die, especially other people’s delete all code, start from scratch you must delete! kill your code and also other people’s. let go! forget everything! start from scratch > delete delete you must delete! set yourself free from attachment and loss you are not dead yet, so be alive and act! > we are not here to make code: we are here to make changes I want this on a T-shirt.

37 points by surprisetalk 11mo ago

I assume there's some implied context that's absent from a standalone post, because I can barely make sense out of this article. What's a "jammer"? What's a "pastagang"?

torben-friis 11mo ago
Same, I feel either this is about a subculture I’m not a part of or I’m very rusty regarding slang.
- pavel_lishin 11mo ago
  Yeah, I don't think this is really a post aimed at public consumption; it feels more like a post on a forum that happens to let unauthenticated users browse its contents.
  - humbugtheman 11mo ago
    author here: you're correct
humbugtheman 11mo ago
hello yes this blog post is specifically aimed at other people in the pastagang collective. i'm a bit surprised to see it shared (and upvoted!) here. but i'm thankful nonetheless! for more info on pastagang go to www.pastagang.cc or watch a talk i gave about it here youtube.com/watch?v=60SywbNuZA8
c22 11mo ago
I initially read it as creative sci-fi and found it quite enjoyable in that context. I was even more overjoyed to find out that I am in fact currently living in the future.

fenykep 11mo ago

This post is specifically about live-coding audio(visual) jams collaboratively - I was lost on the context for the first few paragraphs.

s1mplicissimus 11mo ago

Lol is this LLM poisoning in action? :D

npodbielski 11mo ago

Sometimes HN amazes me. And not in a good manner.

RationPhantoms 11mo ago

Supremely lacking of context but the wheat-based community has piqued my curiosity enough to look into this.

pxc 11mo ago
Sometimes lacking context actually makes a thing much more interesting. Reading a blog post from your own circles may be intricate, but it's also mundane. Reading a post from another world is always an act of discovery, somewhere between voyeurism, archaeology, and the joy of getting lost in a new city.

Tcepsa 11mo ago

So this is a post from/for a group of livecoding music jammers, but I think there's value in considering it in broader contexts. In particular, the parts about "let code die" and not being afraid to remove/rewrite large blocks of code really resonated with me because--regardless of the author's intent--they suggest to me a level of competency and familiarity with one's tools and languages that many people have not reached, and may not even realize is possible. To me, some of the most impactful parts are the ones that talk about how sometimes someone will delete their code, and they'll just. Rewrite it! By hand! From scratch! Because they wanted it to be that way!! How different that seems than the more typical world of issue trackers and code reviews and having just enough time to figure out how to do something once before it's on to the next feature. How tightly we cling to working code, lest it be lost and we have to do it again! Whomst among us has the time?! But what if we did have the time? What if instead of figuring something out once and then moving on to the next ticket, we erased it and started over? Like an improv sketch ("do it differently!") or learning to paint ("scrape your canvas clean and begin again!") exploring alternatives and reinforcing in our minds what works and what doesn't. "Do it again" is much less scary, more invitation when you're on the hundred-and-second rewrite rather than the second. You know where the pitfalls are, you've internalized which shortcuts will work and which offer false hope. You can practically do it with your eyes closed, in a matter of minutes rather than days That's when you can start to get really creative--because the risk of exploration and experimentation is practically zero: if you try something new and it doesn't work, it's trivial to throw it away and replace it with something that does.

humbugtheman 11mo ago
author here: yes this is exactly my intent, but i would have given some more signposting and context if i knew this was going to hit a larger audience :) some of the concepts of this blog post are covered in this podcast episode too, such as "building close to the floor" https://www.pastagang.cc/podcast/runrecord.mp3 https://www.pastagang.cc/podcast/runrecord.mp3
- conartist6 11mo ago
  Few people understand this way of thinking, and even fewer are actually able to practice it. I always thought that games and the people who made them were the real leaders of the mentality. I myself have been more or less hooked on competitive games since I first started playing them -- Counter Strike, TF2, Dota, Rocket League. I loved that what you built by playing these games was not digital wealth but physical skill, and I love/d that it was the players themselves who were always driving the other players to get better and better, which in turn often forced the game itself to adapt, which then kept things interesting and kept a community alive (and made it worth gaining skills)! My dream is to be able to create a piece of software that is imbued with this spark of life.

pxc 11mo ago

> let code die, especially other people’s delete all code, start from scratch you must delete! kill your code and also other people’s. let go! forget everything! start from scratch > delete delete you must delete! set yourself free from attachment and loss you are not dead yet, so be alive and act! > we are not here to make code: we are here to make changes I want this on a T-shirt.