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In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restr

In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restrictions for minors.

johnnienaked 10mo ago
You want parents to parent? God speed and good luck
- saghm 10mo ago
  No, I think what they want is not to have the rest of us have to jump through hoops (and sacrifice privacy) to achieve the same thing. Some of us don't have kids (or live in a household with any), so passing a law that potentially limits our internet access to solve a "problem" that already is dubious is ridiculous.
  - johnnienaked 10mo ago
    I couldn't agree more
    - saghm 10mo ago
      Fair enough! I misunderstood your previous comment as implying that measures like this were needed due to the unlikelihood of parents enforcing this. (There's probably a joke somewhere in here about "parent" comments as well, but I'm not clever enough to figure it out at the moment).
      - johnnienaked 10mo ago
        Absolutely not im never verifying my ID ever on the internet and I think it's not only an extreme overreach but will end up being ineffective as well. While I think children need to be protected online, this won't but neither will trying to get parents to parent better
everdrive 10mo ago
Agreed. My kids are young right now, but I'm wondering if we can just have a shared family room computer like in the 90s. (school-based laptops might thwart this, but maybe by the time they're school-aged people will realize that constantly putting kids in front a screen is a bad thing to do?)
- bombcar 10mo ago
  You can be pretty effective with not much - school laptops can be router-blocked to the needful, the main familyroom computer can be visible to all but also have rudimentary DNS blocking, etc. The key is to be open about it and “more” than reasonable; allow things when requested that aren’t harmful. If we’re too perfect at protecting them from the world they’ll have no tools to deal with the world, which they will have to do eventually.
- krupan 10mo ago
  You can have a shared family room computer! It works really well. No screens in the bedroom is a great idea. iPhones with strict Screen Time settings are awesome when the kids get old enough to use a phone for communication but not old enough to handle a phone with games and the full Internet
  - wiredfool 10mo ago
    My 16 yr old just had his phone update and apply his old screen time settings from 4 or 5 years ago. Sorry kiddo, don’t remember the screen time password. Now why they came back, and weren’t working before? The restrictions were so full of holes that they didn’t really work as anything other than a speedbump.
    - hellojesus 10mo ago
      I don't have an iPhone so haven't tried any of this, but can you not treat your kids devices like you would a business's? It looks like normal user device enrollment with device management is optional, hence why I think business probably makes sense. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/apple-business-manager/axm6a88f692e/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/apple-business-manager... The you can force all traffic through a proxy. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/deployment/dep7ba46fcd/web https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/deployment/dep7ba46fcd... And since you have root certs on the devices, you can decrypt traffic and uniquely identify devices and block internet from your central management, at any time, regardless if the phone is on your wifi vs a friend's vs mobile data. I think it should work.
dbbk 10mo ago
I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.
- SunshineTheCat 10mo ago
  We should then make laws that parents must tell their kids to clean their room. Next we can make laws that parents must tell their children to eat their veggies. What about chore laws? Teeth brushing laws? Stop arguing with your sister laws! More laws!
  - dom96 10mo ago
    Honestly, there should be more laws on how children should be brought up.
  - bennyp101 10mo ago
    There's a giant difference between stopping kids having full reign on what is now essentially the whole world of information - and instant access to strangers, than there is making sure they eat healthy, help out, and don't have bad teeth .... but I'm sure you know that :)
    - SunshineTheCat 10mo ago
      The only difference is in parents who raise and protect their kids without needing a law...and people who want government to be mom and do it for them and are willing to make everyone else suffer for it :)
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    > What about chore laws? I know that was snarky, but that already exists in Germany, since the introduction of the civil law book two centuries ago. Children are legally required to do chores. Actually this is quite important, as otherwise it would be an adult requiring minors to do unpaid work, which is illegal.
michaelmrose 10mo ago
Define controlled and define appropriate in a fashion that almost everyone can agree on which is in line with the constitution and enforceable. You can't.
- miguelbemartin 10mo ago
  I think the parent should decide what the level of control is and what is appropriate for their child. I don't think we need to set up laws for everyone in the world.
bennyp101 10mo ago
Yea, I think anyone who grew up at the start of the internet in homes realises just how different it is now, and that teaching your kids about how to be safe online etc is an important part of parenting. But we are at the point where we have some parents who always had access to what it is now, and don't see it as a bad place. "Stranger Danger" is no longer don't get into a van with someone who promises you sweets kinda thing.
insane_dreamer 10mo ago
In theory that sounds right; but as a parent with two young teens I can tell you that in practice this is really really hard -- your teens can get around whatever restrictions you might set, bringing you down to either 1) taking away their phone altogether, 2) turning off the internet altogether (while at home), 3) trying some parental control app (none of which work that well or are inconvenient to use in practice). The only thing I've successfully managed to set up is a blocker on the router that shuts off access to their devices at night (so they go to sleep at a reasonable hour). During the day is just way too complicated. So we talk about it and try to get them to manage it themselves. They're not unwilling, but the addiction of continuous scrolling is really hard to break. It's not even that the content is terrible, it's more just the mindless zombies -- like sitting all day on the couch watching TV. And they don't even have an IG or TT account (and won't be getting one for a long time) -- this is YouTube (which now has endless scrolling like TT) which I don't want to block altogether because there's other helpful resources on there. I've always been an early adopter, and was on BBS and IRC and all that back in the day, love the fact that the Internet is a place you can easily set up your own blog and all that, but recently I've honestly come to f*ing hate the internet in general and social media in particular.
ipython 10mo ago
How does that work in practice? I've tried to do this at home. It doesn't work at all. It's not the 90s any more- there isn't one PC sitting on a desk with a modem attached to a phone line that you need to wait for 30 seconds to dial up and establish a connection before you're online... Now you have ubiquitous WiFi and cellular connectivity across dozens of devices in a typical household. Even refrigerators have built in web browsers now. Parental controls are a joke, treated as an afterthought at best - nonexistent at worst. Oh, and the school system provides your kids with a Chromebook with Internet access starting in elementary school. It's victim blaming at its finest IMO. Yeah, we can all point fingers at the parents who sit their kids down with an iPad. But there's many of us who struggle to limit screen time, working against the profit motive of trillions of dollars of corporations. It's a losing battle. Edit: crazy. Instead of providing an answer to my question of "how do you do this in practice" I get downvoted. Goes to show that there are no real solutions, just a bunch of morality police and victim blaming. Yes, parents are the victims here. The tools are inadequate and trillions of dollars of incentives are lined up against them.
surgical_fire 10mo ago
This is something I am conflicted about as a parent. My daughter is still a baby, so the problem is still a few years away. But I don't know how to best handle it. In some ways, I see social media as more poisonous to the brain than alcohol or tobacco. So, forbidding - or heavily limiting - internet access sounds like a plan. On the other hand, part of me being a parent is teaching her how to navigate the world. And part of that, wether I like or not, is using the internet. Having contact with the communication tools that exist. The world is full of sons of bitches. If I don't teach her how to deal with that, I would be raising an idiot. Still, a problem for the future me to ponder over.
- 1718627440 10mo ago
  You don't teach your child to deal with alcohol by telling it to try it out.
  - techjamie 10mo ago
    My parents did exactly that, but not in a large quantity. Gave me a sip of a really crappy beer when I was young and basically told me it all tasted like that. Did a pretty good job of not tempting me to try it very much.
rolph 10mo ago
we trained our kids to avoid bad words we taught them to be ashamed of bad pictures, we put porn mags in a hidden location, we put sextoys in hidden location, we locked the pay channels on the cable box, but this internet thing came along and all of that is on there, we didnt lock the computer, or put it somewhere hidden, or the router, or the modem, we didnt lock the box for the service dropline, or for the starlink terminal, we decided to complain until pushing the entire service for everyone into the lock up, not only the kids.

In my opinion, access to internet should always be behind a device controlled by an adult. And it should be this adult's responsibility to set appropriate restrictions for minors.

johnnienaked 10mo ago

You want parents to parent? God speed and good luck

saghm 10mo ago
No, I think what they want is not to have the rest of us have to jump through hoops (and sacrifice privacy) to achieve the same thing. Some of us don't have kids (or live in a household with any), so passing a law that potentially limits our internet access to solve a "problem" that already is dubious is ridiculous.
- johnnienaked 10mo ago
  I couldn't agree more
  - saghm 10mo ago
    Fair enough! I misunderstood your previous comment as implying that measures like this were needed due to the unlikelihood of parents enforcing this. (There's probably a joke somewhere in here about "parent" comments as well, but I'm not clever enough to figure it out at the moment).
    - johnnienaked 10mo ago
      Absolutely not im never verifying my ID ever on the internet and I think it's not only an extreme overreach but will end up being ineffective as well. While I think children need to be protected online, this won't but neither will trying to get parents to parent better

everdrive 10mo ago

Agreed. My kids are young right now, but I'm wondering if we can just have a shared family room computer like in the 90s. (school-based laptops might thwart this, but maybe by the time they're school-aged people will realize that constantly putting kids in front a screen is a bad thing to do?)

bombcar 10mo ago
You can be pretty effective with not much - school laptops can be router-blocked to the needful, the main familyroom computer can be visible to all but also have rudimentary DNS blocking, etc. The key is to be open about it and “more” than reasonable; allow things when requested that aren’t harmful. If we’re too perfect at protecting them from the world they’ll have no tools to deal with the world, which they will have to do eventually.
krupan 10mo ago
You can have a shared family room computer! It works really well. No screens in the bedroom is a great idea. iPhones with strict Screen Time settings are awesome when the kids get old enough to use a phone for communication but not old enough to handle a phone with games and the full Internet
- wiredfool 10mo ago
  My 16 yr old just had his phone update and apply his old screen time settings from 4 or 5 years ago. Sorry kiddo, don’t remember the screen time password. Now why they came back, and weren’t working before? The restrictions were so full of holes that they didn’t really work as anything other than a speedbump.
  - hellojesus 10mo ago
    I don't have an iPhone so haven't tried any of this, but can you not treat your kids devices like you would a business's? It looks like normal user device enrollment with device management is optional, hence why I think business probably makes sense. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/apple-business-manager/axm6a88f692e/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/apple-business-manager... The you can force all traffic through a proxy. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/deployment/dep7ba46fcd/web https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/deployment/dep7ba46fcd... And since you have root certs on the devices, you can decrypt traffic and uniquely identify devices and block internet from your central management, at any time, regardless if the phone is on your wifi vs a friend's vs mobile data. I think it should work.

dbbk 10mo ago

I'm not sure why we don't just make a law that parents must set parental controls on their kids' devices. We do this for most other things.

SunshineTheCat 10mo ago
We should then make laws that parents must tell their kids to clean their room. Next we can make laws that parents must tell their children to eat their veggies. What about chore laws? Teeth brushing laws? Stop arguing with your sister laws! More laws!
- dom96 10mo ago
  Honestly, there should be more laws on how children should be brought up.
- bennyp101 10mo ago
  There's a giant difference between stopping kids having full reign on what is now essentially the whole world of information - and instant access to strangers, than there is making sure they eat healthy, help out, and don't have bad teeth .... but I'm sure you know that :)
  - SunshineTheCat 10mo ago
    The only difference is in parents who raise and protect their kids without needing a law...and people who want government to be mom and do it for them and are willing to make everyone else suffer for it :)
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- 1718627440 10mo ago
  > What about chore laws? I know that was snarky, but that already exists in Germany, since the introduction of the civil law book two centuries ago. Children are legally required to do chores. Actually this is quite important, as otherwise it would be an adult requiring minors to do unpaid work, which is illegal.

michaelmrose 10mo ago

Define controlled and define appropriate in a fashion that almost everyone can agree on which is in line with the constitution and enforceable. You can't.

miguelbemartin 10mo ago
I think the parent should decide what the level of control is and what is appropriate for their child. I don't think we need to set up laws for everyone in the world.

bennyp101 10mo ago

Yea, I think anyone who grew up at the start of the internet in homes realises just how different it is now, and that teaching your kids about how to be safe online etc is an important part of parenting. But we are at the point where we have some parents who always had access to what it is now, and don't see it as a bad place. "Stranger Danger" is no longer don't get into a van with someone who promises you sweets kinda thing.

insane_dreamer 10mo ago

In theory that sounds right; but as a parent with two young teens I can tell you that in practice this is really really hard -- your teens can get around whatever restrictions you might set, bringing you down to either 1) taking away their phone altogether, 2) turning off the internet altogether (while at home), 3) trying some parental control app (none of which work that well or are inconvenient to use in practice). The only thing I've successfully managed to set up is a blocker on the router that shuts off access to their devices at night (so they go to sleep at a reasonable hour). During the day is just way too complicated. So we talk about it and try to get them to manage it themselves. They're not unwilling, but the addiction of continuous scrolling is really hard to break. It's not even that the content is terrible, it's more just the mindless zombies -- like sitting all day on the couch watching TV. And they don't even have an IG or TT account (and won't be getting one for a long time) -- this is YouTube (which now has endless scrolling like TT) which I don't want to block altogether because there's other helpful resources on there. I've always been an early adopter, and was on BBS and IRC and all that back in the day, love the fact that the Internet is a place you can easily set up your own blog and all that, but recently I've honestly come to f*ing hate the internet in general and social media in particular.

ipython 10mo ago

How does that work in practice? I've tried to do this at home. It doesn't work at all. It's not the 90s any more- there isn't one PC sitting on a desk with a modem attached to a phone line that you need to wait for 30 seconds to dial up and establish a connection before you're online... Now you have ubiquitous WiFi and cellular connectivity across dozens of devices in a typical household. Even refrigerators have built in web browsers now. Parental controls are a joke, treated as an afterthought at best - nonexistent at worst. Oh, and the school system provides your kids with a Chromebook with Internet access starting in elementary school. It's victim blaming at its finest IMO. Yeah, we can all point fingers at the parents who sit their kids down with an iPad. But there's many of us who struggle to limit screen time, working against the profit motive of trillions of dollars of corporations. It's a losing battle. Edit: crazy. Instead of providing an answer to my question of "how do you do this in practice" I get downvoted. Goes to show that there are no real solutions, just a bunch of morality police and victim blaming. Yes, parents are the victims here. The tools are inadequate and trillions of dollars of incentives are lined up against them.

surgical_fire 10mo ago

This is something I am conflicted about as a parent. My daughter is still a baby, so the problem is still a few years away. But I don't know how to best handle it. In some ways, I see social media as more poisonous to the brain than alcohol or tobacco. So, forbidding - or heavily limiting - internet access sounds like a plan. On the other hand, part of me being a parent is teaching her how to navigate the world. And part of that, wether I like or not, is using the internet. Having contact with the communication tools that exist. The world is full of sons of bitches. If I don't teach her how to deal with that, I would be raising an idiot. Still, a problem for the future me to ponder over.

1718627440 10mo ago
You don't teach your child to deal with alcohol by telling it to try it out.
- techjamie 10mo ago
  My parents did exactly that, but not in a large quantity. Gave me a sip of a really crappy beer when I was young and basically told me it all tasted like that. Did a pretty good job of not tempting me to try it very much.

rolph 10mo ago

we trained our kids to avoid bad words we taught them to be ashamed of bad pictures, we put porn mags in a hidden location, we put sextoys in hidden location, we locked the pay channels on the cable box, but this internet thing came along and all of that is on there, we didnt lock the computer, or put it somewhere hidden, or the router, or the modem, we didnt lock the box for the service dropline, or for the starlink terminal, we decided to complain until pushing the entire service for everyone into the lock up, not only the kids.