3 ms·

My work health insurance recently offered a free scale and blood pressure monitor, I thought that's a nice perk, I'll use that, so I ordered with the intent of

My work health insurance recently offered a free scale and blood pressure monitor, I thought that's a nice perk, I'll use that, so I ordered with the intent of never using their app, just using it for my own tracking. The first time I used it, I got an email from my insurance company congratulating me and giving me suggestions. Both devices have a cellular modem in them, and arrived paired to my identity. I destroyed them and threw them in a dumpster like that Ron Swanson gif. All to say, little cellular modems and a small data plan are likely getting cheap enough it's worth being extra diligent about the devices we let into our homes. Probably not yet to the point of that being the case on a tv, but I could certainly see it getting to that point soon enough.

aquir 10mo ago
Holy shit! I would’ve done the same! This is pure evil! I guess the box never had this info on it
anonym29 10mo ago
I'd have tried to disassemble it, locate the SIM card or cellular modem, and see if it could be used for other traffic. A wireguard tunnel fixes the privacy problem, and I can always use more IP addresses and bandwidth. Until people start abusing these "features", they will not go away.
- tzs 10mo ago
  Be very very careful if you do that. The data plans on some embedded modems are quite different from consumer plans. They are specifically designed for customers who have a large number of devices but only need a small amount of bandwidth on each device. These plans might have a very low fixed monthly cost but only include a small data allowance, say 100 KB/month. That's plenty for something like a blood pressure monitor that uploads your results to your doctor or insurance company. If you are lucky that's a hard cap and the data plan cuts off for the rest of the month when you hit it. If you are unlucky that plan includes additional data that is very expensive. I've heard numbers like $10 for each additional 100 KB. I definitely recall reading news articles about people who have repurposed a SIM from some device and using it for their internet access, figuring that company would not notice, and using it to watch movies and download large files. Then the company gets their bill from their wireless service provider, and it turns out that on the long list of line items showing the cost for each modem, a single say $35 000 item really stands out when all the others are $1. If you are lucky the company merely asks you to pay that, and if you refuse they take you to civil court where you will lose. (That's what happened in the articles I remember reading, which is how they came to the public's attention). If you unlucky what you did also falls under your jurisdiction's "theft of services" criminal law. Worse, the amount is likely above the maximum for misdemeanor theft of services so it would be felony theft of services.
  - andrewf 10mo ago
    Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2509967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2509967 (the original source is gone and not in the Wayback Machine)
  - 15155 10mo ago
    Through what technical or legal mechanism is the company identifying or locating you - assuming you never logged in or associated the product with your identity?
    - fn-mote 10mo ago
      They shipped it to you. They associated a machine UUID with you at that time, as well as the SIM card. Now maybe you mean the TV? That’s not what this particular thread is about.
      - 15155 10mo ago
        > That’s not what this particular thread is about This thread is about removing the SIM from a TV. If I bought that TV in cash (or even credit card, sans subpoena) at a Best Buy and removed the SIM, how is any corporation identifying me?
        abdullahkhalids 10mo ago
        What law is preventing Best Buy from telling TVManufacturer that a credit card with these last 4 digits bought the TV with this exact serial number? And once the SIM connects near your house, what is preventing the phone company from telling TVManufacturer the rough location of the SIM, especially after that SIM is found to have used too much data? Then use some commercially available ad database to figure out that the person typically near this location with these last four digits is 15155. That's just a guess, but there is enough fingerprinting that they will know with pretty high certainty it is you. Whether all this is admissible in civil court, idk.
        10mo ago
kotaKat 10mo ago
Similarly, I had a workplace dental provider ship me a ‘smart toothbrush’. Turns out they track the aggregate of everyone’s brushing and if every employee brushes their teeth, the plan gets a discount. ”Lower rate based on group's participation in Beam Perks™ wellness program and a group aggregate Beam score of "A". Based on Beam® internal brushing and utilization data.”
- matheusmoreira 10mo ago
  Technology is starting to become genuinely terrifying. Computers used to sit on desks in full visibility, and we used to be in control. Now they're anywhere and everywhere, invisible, always connected, always sensing, doing god knows what, serving unknown masters, exploiting us in unfathomable ways. Absolutely horrifying.
  - morgan814 10mo ago
    Time to turn your house into a giant Faraday cage
sidewndr46 10mo ago
Why not just remove the cell modem?
- _dain_ 10mo ago
  We shouldn't have to.

aquir 10mo ago

Holy shit! I would’ve done the same! This is pure evil! I guess the box never had this info on it

anonym29 10mo ago

I'd have tried to disassemble it, locate the SIM card or cellular modem, and see if it could be used for other traffic. A wireguard tunnel fixes the privacy problem, and I can always use more IP addresses and bandwidth. Until people start abusing these "features", they will not go away.

tzs 10mo ago
Be very very careful if you do that. The data plans on some embedded modems are quite different from consumer plans. They are specifically designed for customers who have a large number of devices but only need a small amount of bandwidth on each device. These plans might have a very low fixed monthly cost but only include a small data allowance, say 100 KB/month. That's plenty for something like a blood pressure monitor that uploads your results to your doctor or insurance company. If you are lucky that's a hard cap and the data plan cuts off for the rest of the month when you hit it. If you are unlucky that plan includes additional data that is very expensive. I've heard numbers like $10 for each additional 100 KB. I definitely recall reading news articles about people who have repurposed a SIM from some device and using it for their internet access, figuring that company would not notice, and using it to watch movies and download large files. Then the company gets their bill from their wireless service provider, and it turns out that on the long list of line items showing the cost for each modem, a single say $35 000 item really stands out when all the others are $1. If you are lucky the company merely asks you to pay that, and if you refuse they take you to civil court where you will lose. (That's what happened in the articles I remember reading, which is how they came to the public's attention). If you unlucky what you did also falls under your jurisdiction's "theft of services" criminal law. Worse, the amount is likely above the maximum for misdemeanor theft of services so it would be felony theft of services.
- andrewf 10mo ago
  Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2509967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2509967 (the original source is gone and not in the Wayback Machine)
- 15155 10mo ago
  Through what technical or legal mechanism is the company identifying or locating you - assuming you never logged in or associated the product with your identity?
  - fn-mote 10mo ago
    They shipped it to you. They associated a machine UUID with you at that time, as well as the SIM card. Now maybe you mean the TV? That’s not what this particular thread is about.
    - 15155 10mo ago
      > That’s not what this particular thread is about This thread is about removing the SIM from a TV. If I bought that TV in cash (or even credit card, sans subpoena) at a Best Buy and removed the SIM, how is any corporation identifying me?
      - abdullahkhalids 10mo ago
        What law is preventing Best Buy from telling TVManufacturer that a credit card with these last 4 digits bought the TV with this exact serial number? And once the SIM connects near your house, what is preventing the phone company from telling TVManufacturer the rough location of the SIM, especially after that SIM is found to have used too much data? Then use some commercially available ad database to figure out that the person typically near this location with these last four digits is 15155. That's just a guess, but there is enough fingerprinting that they will know with pretty high certainty it is you. Whether all this is admissible in civil court, idk.
        10mo ago

kotaKat 10mo ago

Similarly, I had a workplace dental provider ship me a ‘smart toothbrush’. Turns out they track the aggregate of everyone’s brushing and if every employee brushes their teeth, the plan gets a discount. ”Lower rate based on group's participation in Beam Perks™ wellness program and a group aggregate Beam score of "A". Based on Beam® internal brushing and utilization data.”

matheusmoreira 10mo ago
Technology is starting to become genuinely terrifying. Computers used to sit on desks in full visibility, and we used to be in control. Now they're anywhere and everywhere, invisible, always connected, always sensing, doing god knows what, serving unknown masters, exploiting us in unfathomable ways. Absolutely horrifying.
- morgan814 10mo ago
  Time to turn your house into a giant Faraday cage

sidewndr46 10mo ago

Why not just remove the cell modem?

_dain_ 10mo ago
We shouldn't have to.