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I made my own top level comment below about the ambiguity of "I don't want x" and how hard it is in English to distinguish between "I have zero want for x" and

by FloorEgg 11mo ago

I made my own top level comment below about the ambiguity of "I don't want x" and how hard it is in English to distinguish between "I have zero want for x" and "I have negative want for x" I didn't know about semiotic square, and appreciate learning about it. It points at exactly the property that I keep tripping over (and seeing others trip over). Given that wants are an expression of values, and understanding other people's values enables empathy, I can't help but think this flaw in language is actually inhibiting empathy and cooperation at larger scales.

gsf_emergency_6 11mo ago
Agreed. The flaw seems to be subtle though, a kinda sorta mismatch between intuition and deliberation (intent?) [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314666472_The_Exact_Intuitionistic_Meaning_of_the_Square_of_Opposition https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314666472_The_Exact... [0] by which I mean people prefer to use intuition when thinking on their own, but prefer others to be deliberate -- however inappropriate levels of intent also provokes suspicion? https://www.nature.com/articles/s44271-025-00320-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s44271-025-00320-8 Personally, I feel that jokes have the potential to cut through all that (barriers to empathy)
Izkata 11mo ago
> and how hard it is in English to distinguish between "I have zero want for x" and "I have negative want for x" "I do not want to X" "I want to not X" These are both pretty natural English constructions, though the second is usually used as a retort for clarification after saying the first but meaning the second.
- aspenmayer 11mo ago
  “I would prefer not to.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby,_the_Scrivener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby,_the_Scrivener
bonoboTP 11mo ago
Related, that in English "must not" means that it's forbidden, while in German the analogous "muss nicht" just means "don't have to". Also "need not" means "don't need", instead of actually needing the negation.

gsf_emergency_6 11mo ago

Agreed. The flaw seems to be subtle though, a kinda sorta mismatch between intuition and deliberation (intent?) [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314666472_The_Exact_Intuitionistic_Meaning_of_the_Square_of_Opposition https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314666472_The_Exact... [0] by which I mean people prefer to use intuition when thinking on their own, but prefer others to be deliberate -- however inappropriate levels of intent also provokes suspicion? https://www.nature.com/articles/s44271-025-00320-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s44271-025-00320-8 Personally, I feel that jokes have the potential to cut through all that (barriers to empathy)

Izkata 11mo ago

> and how hard it is in English to distinguish between "I have zero want for x" and "I have negative want for x" "I do not want to X" "I want to not X" These are both pretty natural English constructions, though the second is usually used as a retort for clarification after saying the first but meaning the second.

aspenmayer 11mo ago
“I would prefer not to.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby,_the_Scrivener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartleby,_the_Scrivener

bonoboTP 11mo ago

Related, that in English "must not" means that it's forbidden, while in German the analogous "muss nicht" just means "don't have to". Also "need not" means "don't need", instead of actually needing the negation.