3 ms·

I wouldn't give up. When it gets to the level of mandatory government rootkits there are bound to be underground organisations circumventing this and/or trading

I wouldn't give up. When it gets to the level of mandatory government rootkits there are bound to be underground organisations circumventing this and/or trading old hardware. I'd even go as far to say that if things become this authoritarian, certain "direct" acts would be justified in preventing or fighting it.

ThrowawayTestr 11mo ago
Don't worry, they'll make it a crime to open devices that don't have the rootkit.
- GaryBluto 11mo ago
  I meant underground as in the Samizdat, not attempting to operate under the law.
matheusmoreira 11mo ago
An illegitimate underground scene running on life support, using old unlocked computers which are a finite resource they will eventually run out of. Utterly depressing... We used to be free... If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. Billion dollar fabs are single points of failure and they will be exploited, subverted, regulated and controlled. The only possible solution is to democratize and decentralize semiconductor manufacturing to the point anyone can do it. We must be able to make free computer hardware at home just like we can make free computer software at home. Anything short of this and it's over.
- pjc50 11mo ago
  In practice, import them from China like we used to with region unlockable DVD players. > democratize and decentralize semiconductor manufacturing to the point anyone can do it. Physics makes this completely unrealistic.
- autoexec 11mo ago
  > If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. How feasible is this really? I'd feel a lot better if it were possible to produce chips free from backdoors even if the resulting CPUs weren't even as fast as an old Pentium III, but my guess is that any effort to do this at scale will be quickly shutdown by the government
  - matheusmoreira 11mo ago
    No idea how feasible this is. When it comes to electronics in general I'm pretty much beginner level. Here's an example that was posted here recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 Lithographically fabricated integrated circuit in a garage. Whatever this is, we need a lot more of it to stand a chance at resisting governments. > any effort to do this at scale will be quickly shutdown by the government The whole idea is to make this so easy and ubiquitous that they can't shut it down completely. They can shut down some but not all. I believe this is the only way a law like this can be resisted. Promote civil disobedience by making it easy.
  - digdugdirk 11mo ago
    It's not. And any effort to do this at scale would be quickly shut down by physics and economics, not the government. Modern computing technology is a wildly complex supply chain, with extremely specialized manufacturing equipment and facilities. Billion dollar fabs are worth billions of dollars for a reason, and it's not for the real estate or the views. Trying to determine the best "diy chip" sounds like a fun project and an admirable goal, but if you actually wanted something useful I'd wager you'd be better off buying esp32's in bulk so you'd have all the spares you might need.
    - autoexec 11mo ago
      Anything that's got wireless/bluetooth integrated is probably backdoored already, but the esp32 certainly has been (https://www.techspot.com/news/107073-researchers-uncover-hidden-backdoor-widely-used-esp32-microchip.html https://www.techspot.com/news/107073-researchers-uncover-hid...) The entire point of of designing your own chip is so that you know there won't be any surprises. Nothing undocumented.
- Gud 11mo ago
  When did the UK use to be free? Seems to me this is a cultural issue that runs deep. You are his majesty’s loyal subject, like it or not, and more importantly, you are a subject of his bureaucracy. The US works in a similar fashion, except the deep state has slightly different excuses to exist. I work extensively in the UK(past 5 years, I’ve worked there maybe two years in total). Nothing gets done without endless approval from people with cushy office jobs in the bureaucracy. It’s in the bureaucracy’s interest to extend its power, and who is going to stop them? CSAM is an excellent excuse to control the digital world. I wonder what took them this long.
  - qcnguy 11mo ago
    The obvious answer (that HN hates) is that the right can stop them. The only party in the UK against the Online Safety Act is Reform. The only party that wants to shrink the state is Reform. Every other party is supportive of this kind of thing. This makes sense because every other party in the UK is left wing. This isn't a problem of one country's specific culture. Australia and Canada are doing the exact same thing, the Democrats would absolutely do the same thing if the libertarian Constitution weren't in their way. The rest of the EU is doing the same thing. It's a left vs right thing. In fact everywhere is going the same way except the USA, because the USA has a constitution that encodes libertarian values (a minority position) in such a way that it requires a supermajority to overturn.
    - Gud 11mo ago
      Your obvious solution is wrong, though. The right wing is just as eager to implement a police state. The correct answer is decentralisation of power, and put the government back in the hands of the people. That means frequent voting(multiple times a year), by an educated population. Works well in Switzerland.
      - ben_w 11mo ago
        > The correct answer is decentralisation of power, and put the government back in the hands of the people. That means frequent voting(multiple times a year), by an educated population. Sufficiently well educated and also willing to read carefully and without partisan (or other) fear of favour. How many of us read the terms and conditions before clicking "I agree"? How many support a side only because it's their own side? I don't know how to fix this. The "obvious" solutions (seen in various government systems over the world and the centuries) all have demonstrable problems.
ianmcgowan 11mo ago
Sounds like the plot of "Big Brother" by Cory Doctorow

ThrowawayTestr 11mo ago

Don't worry, they'll make it a crime to open devices that don't have the rootkit.

GaryBluto 11mo ago
I meant underground as in the Samizdat, not attempting to operate under the law.

matheusmoreira 11mo ago

An illegitimate underground scene running on life support, using old unlocked computers which are a finite resource they will eventually run out of. Utterly depressing... We used to be free... If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. Billion dollar fabs are single points of failure and they will be exploited, subverted, regulated and controlled. The only possible solution is to democratize and decentralize semiconductor manufacturing to the point anyone can do it. We must be able to make free computer hardware at home just like we can make free computer software at home. Anything short of this and it's over.

pjc50 11mo ago
In practice, import them from China like we used to with region unlockable DVD players. > democratize and decentralize semiconductor manufacturing to the point anyone can do it. Physics makes this completely unrealistic.
autoexec 11mo ago
> If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. How feasible is this really? I'd feel a lot better if it were possible to produce chips free from backdoors even if the resulting CPUs weren't even as fast as an old Pentium III, but my guess is that any effort to do this at scale will be quickly shutdown by the government
- matheusmoreira 11mo ago
  No idea how feasible this is. When it comes to electronics in general I'm pretty much beginner level. Here's an example that was posted here recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 Lithographically fabricated integrated circuit in a garage. Whatever this is, we need a lot more of it to stand a chance at resisting governments. > any effort to do this at scale will be quickly shutdown by the government The whole idea is to make this so easy and ubiquitous that they can't shut it down completely. They can shut down some but not all. I believe this is the only way a law like this can be resisted. Promote civil disobedience by making it easy.
- digdugdirk 11mo ago
  It's not. And any effort to do this at scale would be quickly shut down by physics and economics, not the government. Modern computing technology is a wildly complex supply chain, with extremely specialized manufacturing equipment and facilities. Billion dollar fabs are worth billions of dollars for a reason, and it's not for the real estate or the views. Trying to determine the best "diy chip" sounds like a fun project and an admirable goal, but if you actually wanted something useful I'd wager you'd be better off buying esp32's in bulk so you'd have all the spares you might need.
  - autoexec 11mo ago
    Anything that's got wireless/bluetooth integrated is probably backdoored already, but the esp32 certainly has been (https://www.techspot.com/news/107073-researchers-uncover-hidden-backdoor-widely-used-esp32-microchip.html https://www.techspot.com/news/107073-researchers-uncover-hid...) The entire point of of designing your own chip is so that you know there won't be any surprises. Nothing undocumented.
Gud 11mo ago
When did the UK use to be free? Seems to me this is a cultural issue that runs deep. You are his majesty’s loyal subject, like it or not, and more importantly, you are a subject of his bureaucracy. The US works in a similar fashion, except the deep state has slightly different excuses to exist. I work extensively in the UK(past 5 years, I’ve worked there maybe two years in total). Nothing gets done without endless approval from people with cushy office jobs in the bureaucracy. It’s in the bureaucracy’s interest to extend its power, and who is going to stop them? CSAM is an excellent excuse to control the digital world. I wonder what took them this long.
- qcnguy 11mo ago
  The obvious answer (that HN hates) is that the right can stop them. The only party in the UK against the Online Safety Act is Reform. The only party that wants to shrink the state is Reform. Every other party is supportive of this kind of thing. This makes sense because every other party in the UK is left wing. This isn't a problem of one country's specific culture. Australia and Canada are doing the exact same thing, the Democrats would absolutely do the same thing if the libertarian Constitution weren't in their way. The rest of the EU is doing the same thing. It's a left vs right thing. In fact everywhere is going the same way except the USA, because the USA has a constitution that encodes libertarian values (a minority position) in such a way that it requires a supermajority to overturn.
  - Gud 11mo ago
    Your obvious solution is wrong, though. The right wing is just as eager to implement a police state. The correct answer is decentralisation of power, and put the government back in the hands of the people. That means frequent voting(multiple times a year), by an educated population. Works well in Switzerland.
    - ben_w 11mo ago
      > The correct answer is decentralisation of power, and put the government back in the hands of the people. That means frequent voting(multiple times a year), by an educated population. Sufficiently well educated and also willing to read carefully and without partisan (or other) fear of favour. How many of us read the terms and conditions before clicking "I agree"? How many support a side only because it's their own side? I don't know how to fix this. The "obvious" solutions (seen in various government systems over the world and the centuries) all have demonstrable problems.

ianmcgowan 11mo ago

Sounds like the plot of "Big Brother" by Cory Doctorow