4 ms·

I mean there is benefit to understanding competitor well as well?

LogicFailsMe 10mo ago
Outweighed by the value of having to suffer with the moldy fruits of their own labor. That was the only way the Android Facebook app became usable as well.
ssl-3 10mo ago
There certainly is. To posit a scenario: I would expect General Motors to buy some Ford vehicles to test and play around with and use. There's always stuff to learn about what the competition has done (whether right, wrong, or indifferent). But I also expect the parking lots used by employees at any GM design facility in the world to be mostly full of General Motors products, not Fords.
- GenerWork 10mo ago
  >But I also expect the parking lots used by employees at any GM design facility in the world to be mostly full of General Motors products, not Fords. I think you'd be surprised about the vehicle makeup at Big 3 design facilities.
  - ssl-3 10mo ago
    Maybe so. I'm only familiar with Ford production and distribution facilities. Those parking lots are broadly full of Fords, but that doesn't mean that it's like this across the board.
    - olyjohn 10mo ago
      GM has dedicated parking lots for employees with GM vehicles. Everybody else parks further away in the lot of shame.
      - ssl-3 10mo ago
        Of course. And I've parked in the lot of shame at a Ford plant, as an outsider, in my GMC work truck -- way over there. It wasn't so bad. A bit of a hike to go back and get a tool or something, but it was at least paved...unlike the non-union lot I'm familiar with at a P&G facility, which is a gravel lot that takes crossing a busy road to get to, lacks the active security and visibility from the plant that the union lot has, and which is full of tall weeds. At P&G, I half-expect to come back and find my tires slashed. Anyway, it wasn't barren over there in the not-Ford lot, but it wasn't nearly so populous as the Ford lot was. The Ford-only lot is bigger, and always relatively packed. It was very clear to me that the lots (all of the lots, in aggregate) were mostly full of Fords. To bring this all back 'round: It is clear to me that Ford employees broadly (>50%) drive Fords to work at that plant. --- It isn't clear to me at all that Google Pixel developers don't broadly drive iPhones. As far as I can tell, that status (which is meme-level in its age at this point) is true, and they aren't broadly making daily use of the systems they build. (And I, for one, can't imagine spending 40 hours a week developing systems that I refuse to use. I have no appreciation for that level of apparent arrogance, and I hope to never be suaded to be that way. I'd like to think that I'd be better-motivated to improve the system than I would be to avoid using it and choose a competitor instead. I don't shit where I sleep.)
- snypher 10mo ago
  The CEO of Ford was driving a competition EV for months; https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-farley-daily-drives-xiaomi-su7/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-far...
Forgeties79 10mo ago
I wonder how many apple employees walk in to the office with android phones
- azinman2 10mo ago
  Effectively zero. Disclosure: I work at Apple. And when I was at Google I was shocked by how many iPhones there were.
  - jimmaswell 10mo ago
    This is flabbergasting, how could such a large proportion of highly technical people willingly subject themselves to being shackled by iOS? They just happily put up with having one choice of browser, (outside Europe) no third party app stores, and being locked into the Apple ecosystem? I can't think of a single reason I would ever switch from an S22-25+U to an iPhone. I only went from 22U to 25U because my old one got smashed, otherwise the 22U would still be perfectly fine.
    - dumbfounder 10mo ago
      Because it’s better.
      - deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
      - jimmaswell 10mo ago
        I've tried them out and not a single thing about it was tangibly better IMO. They have no inherent merit above Android except that some see them as a status symbol (which is absurd as my S25U has a higher MSRP than most iPhone models)
        hamburglar 10mo ago
        My bottom of the barrel iPhone SE is absolutely not a status symbol. It’s just the phone I like best. The MSRP of your phone does not matter.

Outweighed by the value of having to suffer with the moldy fruits of their own labor. That was the only way the Android Facebook app became usable as well.

ssl-3 10mo ago

There certainly is. To posit a scenario: I would expect General Motors to buy some Ford vehicles to test and play around with and use. There's always stuff to learn about what the competition has done (whether right, wrong, or indifferent). But I also expect the parking lots used by employees at any GM design facility in the world to be mostly full of General Motors products, not Fords.

GenerWork 10mo ago
>But I also expect the parking lots used by employees at any GM design facility in the world to be mostly full of General Motors products, not Fords. I think you'd be surprised about the vehicle makeup at Big 3 design facilities.
- ssl-3 10mo ago
  Maybe so. I'm only familiar with Ford production and distribution facilities. Those parking lots are broadly full of Fords, but that doesn't mean that it's like this across the board.
  - olyjohn 10mo ago
    GM has dedicated parking lots for employees with GM vehicles. Everybody else parks further away in the lot of shame.
    - ssl-3 10mo ago
      Of course. And I've parked in the lot of shame at a Ford plant, as an outsider, in my GMC work truck -- way over there. It wasn't so bad. A bit of a hike to go back and get a tool or something, but it was at least paved...unlike the non-union lot I'm familiar with at a P&G facility, which is a gravel lot that takes crossing a busy road to get to, lacks the active security and visibility from the plant that the union lot has, and which is full of tall weeds. At P&G, I half-expect to come back and find my tires slashed. Anyway, it wasn't barren over there in the not-Ford lot, but it wasn't nearly so populous as the Ford lot was. The Ford-only lot is bigger, and always relatively packed. It was very clear to me that the lots (all of the lots, in aggregate) were mostly full of Fords. To bring this all back 'round: It is clear to me that Ford employees broadly (>50%) drive Fords to work at that plant. --- It isn't clear to me at all that Google Pixel developers don't broadly drive iPhones. As far as I can tell, that status (which is meme-level in its age at this point) is true, and they aren't broadly making daily use of the systems they build. (And I, for one, can't imagine spending 40 hours a week developing systems that I refuse to use. I have no appreciation for that level of apparent arrogance, and I hope to never be suaded to be that way. I'd like to think that I'd be better-motivated to improve the system than I would be to avoid using it and choose a competitor instead. I don't shit where I sleep.)
snypher 10mo ago
The CEO of Ford was driving a competition EV for months; https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-farley-daily-drives-xiaomi-su7/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62694325/ford-ceo-jim-far...

Forgeties79 10mo ago

I wonder how many apple employees walk in to the office with android phones

azinman2 10mo ago
Effectively zero. Disclosure: I work at Apple. And when I was at Google I was shocked by how many iPhones there were.
- jimmaswell 10mo ago
  This is flabbergasting, how could such a large proportion of highly technical people willingly subject themselves to being shackled by iOS? They just happily put up with having one choice of browser, (outside Europe) no third party app stores, and being locked into the Apple ecosystem? I can't think of a single reason I would ever switch from an S22-25+U to an iPhone. I only went from 22U to 25U because my old one got smashed, otherwise the 22U would still be perfectly fine.
  - dumbfounder 10mo ago
    Because it’s better.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - jimmaswell 10mo ago
      I've tried them out and not a single thing about it was tangibly better IMO. They have no inherent merit above Android except that some see them as a status symbol (which is absurd as my S25U has a higher MSRP than most iPhone models)
      - hamburglar 10mo ago
        My bottom of the barrel iPhone SE is absolutely not a status symbol. It’s just the phone I like best. The MSRP of your phone does not matter.