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This comment section is strange, a lot of people trying to discredit Snowden, saying he shouldn't have released the files, should be in prison, etc. 12 years ag

This comment section is strange, a lot of people trying to discredit Snowden, saying he shouldn't have released the files, should be in prison, etc. 12 years ago this was HUGE news and had a major impact on the internet and everyone thanked Snowden for these documents! I certainly am thankful. Disappointed in my country that they literally said that "spying between friends is a no-go" but then did nothing and intimidated journalists and legalized it instead. And thanks to the author for giving the documents another look, found it very interesting. There is also part 2: https://libroot.org/posts/going-through-snowden-documents-part-2/ https://libroot.org/posts/going-through-snowden-documents-pa...

bandofthehawk 11mo ago
My memory is that Hacker News comments were even more anti-Snowden at the time, but I could be mistaken. I would have thought people here would be very supportive of his whistle blowing, but I think a lot of people on this site unfortunately have a strong loyalty to the government organizations that were exposed.
- GuinansEyebrows 11mo ago
  i think a lot of people on this site work on the same types of projects snowden worked on and blew the whistle over, for the same organizations, and feel good about it. i wonder how many users here are happily employed by booz allen hamilton?
  - nasaeclipse 11mo ago
    unrelated, but I recently saw an ad by booz allen that proudly said "Stopping Fentanyl" as part of their mission. Like, really? Are people really that gullible to believe that?
    - DANmode 11mo ago
      The people that didn’t know the name before the ad? Yeah.
    - blitzar 11mo ago
      The line tested wonderfully with the focus groups.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jdycbsj 11mo ago
    Even if they do, they are not the people who shape policy or have any Power. When is the last time you saw someone with real wotld power show up and comment on HN? So its like worrying about what farm animals think about how the farm runs. What Snowden/Assange/Panama Papers/DOGE teaches us is that it doesnt matter what info about the farm is public, there is a pecking order. If you want to change something about how the farm works and how the farm animals are treated then you have to learn how to be a farmer. No free lunch and shortcuts just because you access info.
    - GuinansEyebrows 11mo ago
      > Even if they do, they are not the people who shape policy or have any Power. i am comfortable making this statement: anyone in the middle of the venn diagram of "booz allen hamilton employee" and "hacker news dot com reader" has the "Power" to work literally anywhere else that produces technology products.
- DamnInteresting 11mo ago
  This was the main thread about Snowden on the day his identity was revealed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850590
  - mistrial9 11mo ago
    https://hn.unlurker.com/replay?item=5850590 https://hn.unlurker.com/replay?item=5850590
    - bnjms 11mo ago
      > You need to have been convicted to receive a pardon, the petition should be not to prosecute. Hahaha / I’ve made myself sad
      - raxxorraxor 11mo ago
        The critics weren't ever the brightest lights in the sky, but this was horribly naive even for that time. It is as if you took the whole lot of human literature, took a dump on it and honestly believe you would know better.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 11mo ago
      Oh! That's a cool site I didn't know about. Bookmarked.
alphazard 11mo ago
"User" generated content on the internet is mostly bots, HN included. Opinions that seem too radical or stupid to be believed are often bots, or NPC humans repeating bot content that they read somewhere else.
- OkayPhysicist 11mo ago
  Too radical is in the eyes of the beholder. Most of the most intelligent people I know, people who rather carefully analyze their own beliefs, tend to have at least a few things that they are extremely outside the Overton window on. It's not particularly hard to see why: if you apply even a surface-level analysis of the world around you, a lot of stuff is "we all believe X because we've always done X that way". On the flip side, there's plenty of just very dumb people out there. I play enough games that involve VOIPing with others that I can confidently state such.
  - Loughla 11mo ago
    What's the phrase? Think about how stupid the average person is, and then remember that half of everyone is stupider than that.
- amypetrik8 11mo ago
  >Opinions that seem too radical or stupid to be believed are often bots, or NPC humans repeating bot content that they read somewhere else. You forget to mention trolls. The best way to handle a NPC propaganda parrot is to deliver them an even more foul piece of propaganda and observe .. vs disagreeing with them, that they would enjoy.
- mrwrong 11mo ago
  [dead]
sholain 11mo ago
One cannot just release whatever one wants, and some of the docs should not have been released. There were huge variations in the nature of the content that he released, and this is the problem with the narrative. He's a 'whistle blower' and 'broke the law' at the same time. A lot of people seem to have difficulty with that. Edit: we need better privacy laws and transparency around a lot of things, that said, some state actors are going to need to be around for a long while yet. It's a complicated world, none of this is black and white, it's why we need vigilance.
- masfuerte 11mo ago
  I find it very strange that so many people are more exercised by the small crime of Snowden releasing this information than by the large crime of the federal government spying on us all.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    It's not strange, it's purposeful. It's the same logic as "well George Floyd had a counterfeit 20!" It's an extremely effective propaganda technique whereby you discredit the person(s) who were affected by injustice, while simultaneously shifting the narrative away from said injustice. It preys on the human minds simple morality reasoning skills - bad people don't do good things, and good people don't do bad things. Of course, that's not how it works, and it's both. George Floyd maybe did counterfeit a twenty, and that's illegal. But is the punishment for that public execution? What motivation do people have to bring that up? No good motivations, in my mind.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - sholain 11mo ago
      A complete mischaracterization. George Floyd ingested quite a lot of fentanyl, enough to die though it was inconclusive - it's a biological and medical reality that characterized the situation in a very real way. Snowden released a lot of information that had nothing to do with 'whistle blowing' and enormously benefited very bad actors such such as China and Russia - it was a windfall for them, and destroyed years of work by Western intelligence agencies. This was right after China had discovered and executed a handful of CIA personnel, whereupon it was very, very clear the possible repercussions of such a release. His actions were inconsistent with those of someone interested only in whistle-blowing and or 'showing hypocrisy' on espionage; there are any number of ways to whistle-blow in a manner that does not result in the negative outcomes. Since he's smart enough to know better, it's rational to conclude the possibility of ulterior motives. Russia's espionage and influence campaigns are having a severely negative effect on the political situation in the US and West in general, where they have deeply penetrated many nations security and political apparatus, especially Germany.
nateglims 11mo ago
I'm sympathetic to snowden and think he should just be pardoned, but in retrospect was this actually huge news? Other than reaffirming that telcos were a weak link and that we should encrypt everything, what was a major revelation? I don't think americans broadly care if we are spying on any of the countries listed in part 1 or 2 of this. Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Bolivia and China?
- godelski 11mo ago
  > in retrospect was this actually huge news? Yes
keiferski 11mo ago
Hacker News would be better named Tech Industry Professional News. Most people here are very invested in corporations and government organizations, are very well paid for being so, and have little interest in anything “hacker” in the traditional sense of the word.
- blitzar 11mo ago
  Most people here are very invested in corporations and believe they should (and do) supercede governments, nation states and all other organizations globally.
- ffsm8 11mo ago
  > and have little interest in anything “hacker” in the traditional sense of the word. Couldn't agree more, but not for the reason you think > The word "hacker" derives from the Late Middle English words hackere, hakker, or hakkere - one who cuts wood, woodchopper, or woodcutter.[13] Sorry, couldn't help myself
TiredOfLife 11mo ago
That was before he became (or probably always was) a part of russian disinformation campaign. So everything he released became suspect.
- sunaookami 11mo ago
  "It's a russian disinformation campaign" must be one of the lamest accusations that one can throw around. Don't agree with anyone? Just say that they are russian bots!
  - TiredOfLife 11mo ago
    If it quacks like duck and looks like a duck it's probably a duck.
- conception 11mo ago
  Or was forced to to receive asylum.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

bandofthehawk 11mo ago

My memory is that Hacker News comments were even more anti-Snowden at the time, but I could be mistaken. I would have thought people here would be very supportive of his whistle blowing, but I think a lot of people on this site unfortunately have a strong loyalty to the government organizations that were exposed.

GuinansEyebrows 11mo ago
i think a lot of people on this site work on the same types of projects snowden worked on and blew the whistle over, for the same organizations, and feel good about it. i wonder how many users here are happily employed by booz allen hamilton?
- nasaeclipse 11mo ago
  unrelated, but I recently saw an ad by booz allen that proudly said "Stopping Fentanyl" as part of their mission. Like, really? Are people really that gullible to believe that?
  - DANmode 11mo ago
    The people that didn’t know the name before the ad? Yeah.
  - blitzar 11mo ago
    The line tested wonderfully with the focus groups.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- jdycbsj 11mo ago
  Even if they do, they are not the people who shape policy or have any Power. When is the last time you saw someone with real wotld power show up and comment on HN? So its like worrying about what farm animals think about how the farm runs. What Snowden/Assange/Panama Papers/DOGE teaches us is that it doesnt matter what info about the farm is public, there is a pecking order. If you want to change something about how the farm works and how the farm animals are treated then you have to learn how to be a farmer. No free lunch and shortcuts just because you access info.
  - GuinansEyebrows 11mo ago
    > Even if they do, they are not the people who shape policy or have any Power. i am comfortable making this statement: anyone in the middle of the venn diagram of "booz allen hamilton employee" and "hacker news dot com reader" has the "Power" to work literally anywhere else that produces technology products.
DamnInteresting 11mo ago
This was the main thread about Snowden on the day his identity was revealed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5850590
- mistrial9 11mo ago
  https://hn.unlurker.com/replay?item=5850590 https://hn.unlurker.com/replay?item=5850590
  - bnjms 11mo ago
    > You need to have been convicted to receive a pardon, the petition should be not to prosecute. Hahaha / I’ve made myself sad
    - raxxorraxor 11mo ago
      The critics weren't ever the brightest lights in the sky, but this was horribly naive even for that time. It is as if you took the whole lot of human literature, took a dump on it and honestly believe you would know better.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 11mo ago
    Oh! That's a cool site I didn't know about. Bookmarked.

alphazard 11mo ago

"User" generated content on the internet is mostly bots, HN included. Opinions that seem too radical or stupid to be believed are often bots, or NPC humans repeating bot content that they read somewhere else.

OkayPhysicist 11mo ago
Too radical is in the eyes of the beholder. Most of the most intelligent people I know, people who rather carefully analyze their own beliefs, tend to have at least a few things that they are extremely outside the Overton window on. It's not particularly hard to see why: if you apply even a surface-level analysis of the world around you, a lot of stuff is "we all believe X because we've always done X that way". On the flip side, there's plenty of just very dumb people out there. I play enough games that involve VOIPing with others that I can confidently state such.
- Loughla 11mo ago
  What's the phrase? Think about how stupid the average person is, and then remember that half of everyone is stupider than that.
amypetrik8 11mo ago
>Opinions that seem too radical or stupid to be believed are often bots, or NPC humans repeating bot content that they read somewhere else. You forget to mention trolls. The best way to handle a NPC propaganda parrot is to deliver them an even more foul piece of propaganda and observe .. vs disagreeing with them, that they would enjoy.
mrwrong 11mo ago
[dead]

sholain 11mo ago

One cannot just release whatever one wants, and some of the docs should not have been released. There were huge variations in the nature of the content that he released, and this is the problem with the narrative. He's a 'whistle blower' and 'broke the law' at the same time. A lot of people seem to have difficulty with that. Edit: we need better privacy laws and transparency around a lot of things, that said, some state actors are going to need to be around for a long while yet. It's a complicated world, none of this is black and white, it's why we need vigilance.

masfuerte 11mo ago
I find it very strange that so many people are more exercised by the small crime of Snowden releasing this information than by the large crime of the federal government spying on us all.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- array_key_first 11mo ago
  It's not strange, it's purposeful. It's the same logic as "well George Floyd had a counterfeit 20!" It's an extremely effective propaganda technique whereby you discredit the person(s) who were affected by injustice, while simultaneously shifting the narrative away from said injustice. It preys on the human minds simple morality reasoning skills - bad people don't do good things, and good people don't do bad things. Of course, that's not how it works, and it's both. George Floyd maybe did counterfeit a twenty, and that's illegal. But is the punishment for that public execution? What motivation do people have to bring that up? No good motivations, in my mind.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - sholain 11mo ago
    A complete mischaracterization. George Floyd ingested quite a lot of fentanyl, enough to die though it was inconclusive - it's a biological and medical reality that characterized the situation in a very real way. Snowden released a lot of information that had nothing to do with 'whistle blowing' and enormously benefited very bad actors such such as China and Russia - it was a windfall for them, and destroyed years of work by Western intelligence agencies. This was right after China had discovered and executed a handful of CIA personnel, whereupon it was very, very clear the possible repercussions of such a release. His actions were inconsistent with those of someone interested only in whistle-blowing and or 'showing hypocrisy' on espionage; there are any number of ways to whistle-blow in a manner that does not result in the negative outcomes. Since he's smart enough to know better, it's rational to conclude the possibility of ulterior motives. Russia's espionage and influence campaigns are having a severely negative effect on the political situation in the US and West in general, where they have deeply penetrated many nations security and political apparatus, especially Germany.

nateglims 11mo ago

I'm sympathetic to snowden and think he should just be pardoned, but in retrospect was this actually huge news? Other than reaffirming that telcos were a weak link and that we should encrypt everything, what was a major revelation? I don't think americans broadly care if we are spying on any of the countries listed in part 1 or 2 of this. Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Bolivia and China?

godelski 11mo ago
> in retrospect was this actually huge news? Yes

keiferski 11mo ago

Hacker News would be better named Tech Industry Professional News. Most people here are very invested in corporations and government organizations, are very well paid for being so, and have little interest in anything “hacker” in the traditional sense of the word.

blitzar 11mo ago
Most people here are very invested in corporations and believe they should (and do) supercede governments, nation states and all other organizations globally.
ffsm8 11mo ago
> and have little interest in anything “hacker” in the traditional sense of the word. Couldn't agree more, but not for the reason you think > The word "hacker" derives from the Late Middle English words hackere, hakker, or hakkere - one who cuts wood, woodchopper, or woodcutter.[13] Sorry, couldn't help myself

TiredOfLife 11mo ago

That was before he became (or probably always was) a part of russian disinformation campaign. So everything he released became suspect.

sunaookami 11mo ago
"It's a russian disinformation campaign" must be one of the lamest accusations that one can throw around. Don't agree with anyone? Just say that they are russian bots!
- TiredOfLife 11mo ago
  If it quacks like duck and looks like a duck it's probably a duck.
conception 11mo ago
Or was forced to to receive asylum.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]