4 ms·

We will probably have robots by then, so a declining population won't be a problem. But import problematic immigrants that are a tax + criminal burden and you

by NotGMan 10mo ago

We will probably have robots by then, so a declining population won't be a problem. But import problematic immigrants that are a tax + criminal burden and you make everything worse.

BugsJustFindMe 10mo ago
Are you going to make your robots pay taxes? The idea that immigrants are a tax or crime burden is a stupid myth.
- antonymoose 10mo ago
  Which immigrants from where? Some nationalities do represent a tax burden and an increase in crime rates.
- 3953591486814 10mo ago
  [flagged]
epolanski 10mo ago
The overwhelming majority of swiss immigrants are either highly skilled individuals that the swiss population cannot produce in numbers or they do jobs locals won't do (cleaning, etc). Good luck telling Swiss pharma or any other of their specialized industries to live without immigrants, they can close tomorrow. Immigrants are an insane boost to Swiss economy. Also, I lived and been in Switzerland few times after, there's virtually no problematic immigrants. I've never ever felt the slightest danger, even walking at night with nobody but the kind of immigrants you don't like, you just don't. Even though foreigners are overrepresented compared to locals (as in any other country in the world with immigrants they are the poorest and thus more inclined) the absolute numbers are very very low. So no, higher or lower number of immigrants don't have linear correlations. Switzerland has an insane number of expats and immigrants as % of the population, insanely higher than the US or other countries like Poland or Italy, yet their crime numbers are fractional.
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  Find the market clearing price for unwanted jobs with domestic labor. Any job will be done at the right compensation. This is what UBI would do. I prefer this versus continuing to require an imported underclass. With my apologies to the conservative mental model, “starve the beast” but of cheap labor.
  - ratelimitsteve 10mo ago
    i'm okay w importing workers if they're treated the same as domestic workers. its the system we have now that incentivizes importing and abusing workers by somehow pretending that employers have no role at all in illegal immigration and only punishing the immigrants that fails miserably at everything immigration policy says it's supposed to do.
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      Ahh, but the purpose of the system is what it does. Would employers and countries import immigrants if they had to treat them the same as domestic workers?
      - ratelimitsteve 10mo ago
        and thus the solution to illegal immigration and "immigrants taking our jobs" is to treat immigrants fairly. sounds like a win/win, no?
    - epolanski 10mo ago
      How's Swiss immigration policy failing Switzerland? Of course land and real estate is limited, they can't keep growing at these numbers. But stating that it's failed till now, is just a statement of "I've never lived in Switzerland and I have no clue what I'm talking about".
  - epolanski 10mo ago
    You know that 30%+ of Swiss population is foreign born? 36% of the workforce is foreign born. In Zurich, Geneve, Lausanne, 44%+ of the residents are foreigners, and more than half the workforce is foreigners. And that's even ignoring how many people work there but reside in neighbouring countries (France border is close to Geneve and Lausanne is close and even has a boat between the two sides mostly carrying workers). If you think that a Swiss national (which has several advantages from a hiring perspective) is going to be cleaning your toilet, no matter the money, without having higher paying options you're absolutely out of your mind.

by NotGMan 10mo ago

We will probably have robots by then, so a declining population won't be a problem. But import problematic immigrants that are a tax + criminal burden and you make everything worse.

BugsJustFindMe 10mo ago

Are you going to make your robots pay taxes? The idea that immigrants are a tax or crime burden is a stupid myth.

antonymoose 10mo ago
Which immigrants from where? Some nationalities do represent a tax burden and an increase in crime rates.
3953591486814 10mo ago
[flagged]

epolanski 10mo ago

The overwhelming majority of swiss immigrants are either highly skilled individuals that the swiss population cannot produce in numbers or they do jobs locals won't do (cleaning, etc). Good luck telling Swiss pharma or any other of their specialized industries to live without immigrants, they can close tomorrow. Immigrants are an insane boost to Swiss economy. Also, I lived and been in Switzerland few times after, there's virtually no problematic immigrants. I've never ever felt the slightest danger, even walking at night with nobody but the kind of immigrants you don't like, you just don't. Even though foreigners are overrepresented compared to locals (as in any other country in the world with immigrants they are the poorest and thus more inclined) the absolute numbers are very very low. So no, higher or lower number of immigrants don't have linear correlations. Switzerland has an insane number of expats and immigrants as % of the population, insanely higher than the US or other countries like Poland or Italy, yet their crime numbers are fractional.

toomuchtodo 10mo ago
Find the market clearing price for unwanted jobs with domestic labor. Any job will be done at the right compensation. This is what UBI would do. I prefer this versus continuing to require an imported underclass. With my apologies to the conservative mental model, “starve the beast” but of cheap labor.
- ratelimitsteve 10mo ago
  i'm okay w importing workers if they're treated the same as domestic workers. its the system we have now that incentivizes importing and abusing workers by somehow pretending that employers have no role at all in illegal immigration and only punishing the immigrants that fails miserably at everything immigration policy says it's supposed to do.
  - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
    Ahh, but the purpose of the system is what it does. Would employers and countries import immigrants if they had to treat them the same as domestic workers?
    - ratelimitsteve 10mo ago
      and thus the solution to illegal immigration and "immigrants taking our jobs" is to treat immigrants fairly. sounds like a win/win, no?
  - epolanski 10mo ago
    How's Swiss immigration policy failing Switzerland? Of course land and real estate is limited, they can't keep growing at these numbers. But stating that it's failed till now, is just a statement of "I've never lived in Switzerland and I have no clue what I'm talking about".
- epolanski 10mo ago
  You know that 30%+ of Swiss population is foreign born? 36% of the workforce is foreign born. In Zurich, Geneve, Lausanne, 44%+ of the residents are foreigners, and more than half the workforce is foreigners. And that's even ignoring how many people work there but reside in neighbouring countries (France border is close to Geneve and Lausanne is close and even has a boat between the two sides mostly carrying workers). If you think that a Swiss national (which has several advantages from a hiring perspective) is going to be cleaning your toilet, no matter the money, without having higher paying options you're absolutely out of your mind.