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Additionally, ICE sales have started recovering over the past few years now that EV subsidizes have started being phased out in most markets [0]. Even in China

Additionally, ICE sales have started recovering over the past few years now that EV subsidizes have started being phased out in most markets [0]. Even in China, most consumers "despite buying more EVs, are less interested in how their cars are powered, and more in their digital lifestyle integration" [0]. I like EVs but I think that in most markets they're at the same point today that hybrid cars were in the 2010s - proven, but still a difficult financial sell in the short term due to high upfront costs for consumers. Edit: can't reply > Which seems odd in an article claiming the global tide has turned against EVs Becuase China is not the world. Most other markets have seen either a slowdown or a reversal in EV sales - especially following the reduction of EV purchase subsidizes in most markets. It also highlights the fact that a large portion of customers are indifferent about ecological sentiment, and that EVs can only outpace ICE if their upfront cost or net-new features (in China's case, EVs tended to have better features than ICE cars sold domestically) outpace ICE vehicles. Even Chinese automotive players (primarily SOEs that couldn't compete with private sector BYD) have been taking advantage of this market shift, become major ICE car exporters now [1]. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/combustion-engine-cars-regain-popularity-worldwide-ey-says-2025-12-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/combustion-engine-ca... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-with-gasoline-cars-it-cant-sell-home-2025-12-02/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/china-floods-world-wi...

bombcar 11mo ago
EVs seem to run $10-15k more than the equivalent ICE - I tried everything I could but couldn't make it worthwhile due to constraints on what is available and inability to get the subsidies.
- alephnerd 11mo ago
  That's why it's at the same point as Hybrids were 15 years ago. Yet Hybrids have now largely replacing traditional ICE. I think a similar trend will happen for EVs as well within 10-15 years once the current generation of cars are replaced.
  - t-3 11mo ago
    Hybrids are useful for people without garages though - the total market is much larger than for EVs, which are pretty exclusively a product for homeowners, and usually not the only vehicle either. EVs will always be a niche unless the charging infrastructure problem is solved.
    - coldpie 11mo ago
      I agree with your overall point (and I'm pretty confident improved infrastructure will fix the problem for non-homeowners... eventually), but I didn't understand this part: > usually not the only vehicle either It doesn't seem like EV or not would make a difference for whether to have more than one vehicle? My wife and I have shared one car, first ICE and now EV, for more than a decade and it didn't make a difference in our habits.
      - t-3 11mo ago
        There's no real reason with modern EVs unless you really love road trips, but I feel like I very rarely meet or hear of EV owners who don't own more than one vehicle. That's probably less of a thing now that most new EVs have decent range.
- Rover222 11mo ago
  The lightly-used EV market is where it's at, for now.
  - rtkwe 11mo ago
    100% let someone else eat the initial depreciation hit from going from new to used and you can usually get one with pretty low mileage too.
    - bluGill 11mo ago
      So far, but it is hard to find good EVs on the used market. Sometimes you can, but at the moment I'm looking and there just are not many options at all.
      - Rover222 11mo ago
        A 1 or 2 yr old Model Y is a great EV...
        bluGill 11mo ago
        Is it? Will I be able to get parts for it 15 years from now? Will I be able to repair it myself? (I have rebuilt engines before, and I'm planning to replace the transmission in my truck myself this year, so DIY ability is important to me). There have been headlines recently about how unreliable Tesla is.
        rtkwe 11mo ago
        Transmissions on EVs are generally single stage speed reduction so yes in the extremely rare chance you need to repair it you can. The motors are way harder to repair but they're similarly way less likely to need repair. Other part availability will vary by brand just like with ICE cars/trucks there's nothing magically less available if we're looking at new parts, older common parts there's a bit of a difference just from the designs being newer so there's a smaller population of junked cars to pull random EV pumps off of the way you can with some old car parts.
- coldpie 11mo ago
  Yeah, that's why that poster said "upfront" costs. EVs are like 10+ times cheaper than ICE cars in the long term, but we're making our children pay most of the costs of the ICE version, so it's cheaper for us. Yay for us, I guess?
- bluGill 11mo ago
  There are a lot of "it depends" in the math, it takes somewhere around 60-80k miles to break even on the $10k difference. Most new car owners only keep the car for around 30,000 miles (leases are often 3 years, max of 32,000 miles). And so far EVs are not holding their value as well as ICE cars so a few more miles. Long term EVs are a lot cheaper, but for the new car buyer they don't make financial sense yet. (new car buyers also get a warranty so additional costs are cheap - $600 for oil changes over that time if they buy the most expensive dealer package, and a lot less if they go elsewhere)
ZeroGravitas 11mo ago
That quote says Chinese buyers are buying more EVs. Which seems odd in an article claiming the global tide has turned against EVs. It's like some weird 3rd-hand sour grapes. Yes they bought the EV but they don't care about it being an EV! Which matters, for reasons...
- zobzu 11mo ago
  china stats reporting is worse than US stats - impossible to trust - it'll say everything and nothing every time.
Workaccount2 11mo ago
As climate change effects become undeniable and older hard heads die off, people will less and less be interested in fossil fuels. Oil and Gas doesn't even want to make investments that trump is pushing, because all those green subsidies and programs will likely come roaring back in a few years. The government may be gerrymandered and senate locked into a tight battle between red and blue, but consumer sentiment is purely popular vote. The trend is pretty clear that consumers want to get away from fossil fuels.
kieranmaine 11mo ago
> Additionally, ICE sales have started recovering over the past few years now that EV subsidizes have started being phased out in most markets I think this is a false dawn. EV sales in Germany have rebounded strongly after the removal of subsidies [1]. "Germany was the largest contributor, with more than 434,600 new EV registrations and one of the strongest growth rates in the bloc, up 39.4% year-on-year" EU EV sales are up in 2025 in comparison with 2024 [1] "Battery electric vehicles accounted for 16.4% of newly registered cars in the EU during the first ten months of 2025, according to figures from the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA). That compares with 13.2% over the same period in 2024." 1. https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/11/25/the-electric-transition-which-eu-country-is-buying-the-most-evs https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/11/25/the-electric-tr... 2. https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23=1&rs-pr=10000_25000&rs-er=0_500&rs-ld=0_500&rs-ac=2_23&rs-dcfc=0_400&rs-ub=10_200&rs-tw=0_2500&rs-ef=150_600&rs-sa=-1_5&rs-w=1000_3500&rs-c=0_5000&rs-y=2024_2030&s=4&p=0-50 https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23...

bombcar 11mo ago

EVs seem to run $10-15k more than the equivalent ICE - I tried everything I could but couldn't make it worthwhile due to constraints on what is available and inability to get the subsidies.

alephnerd 11mo ago
That's why it's at the same point as Hybrids were 15 years ago. Yet Hybrids have now largely replacing traditional ICE. I think a similar trend will happen for EVs as well within 10-15 years once the current generation of cars are replaced.
- t-3 11mo ago
  Hybrids are useful for people without garages though - the total market is much larger than for EVs, which are pretty exclusively a product for homeowners, and usually not the only vehicle either. EVs will always be a niche unless the charging infrastructure problem is solved.
  - coldpie 11mo ago
    I agree with your overall point (and I'm pretty confident improved infrastructure will fix the problem for non-homeowners... eventually), but I didn't understand this part: > usually not the only vehicle either It doesn't seem like EV or not would make a difference for whether to have more than one vehicle? My wife and I have shared one car, first ICE and now EV, for more than a decade and it didn't make a difference in our habits.
    - t-3 11mo ago
      There's no real reason with modern EVs unless you really love road trips, but I feel like I very rarely meet or hear of EV owners who don't own more than one vehicle. That's probably less of a thing now that most new EVs have decent range.
Rover222 11mo ago
The lightly-used EV market is where it's at, for now.
- rtkwe 11mo ago
  100% let someone else eat the initial depreciation hit from going from new to used and you can usually get one with pretty low mileage too.
  - bluGill 11mo ago
    So far, but it is hard to find good EVs on the used market. Sometimes you can, but at the moment I'm looking and there just are not many options at all.
    - Rover222 11mo ago
      A 1 or 2 yr old Model Y is a great EV...
      - bluGill 11mo ago
        Is it? Will I be able to get parts for it 15 years from now? Will I be able to repair it myself? (I have rebuilt engines before, and I'm planning to replace the transmission in my truck myself this year, so DIY ability is important to me). There have been headlines recently about how unreliable Tesla is.
        rtkwe 11mo ago
        Transmissions on EVs are generally single stage speed reduction so yes in the extremely rare chance you need to repair it you can. The motors are way harder to repair but they're similarly way less likely to need repair. Other part availability will vary by brand just like with ICE cars/trucks there's nothing magically less available if we're looking at new parts, older common parts there's a bit of a difference just from the designs being newer so there's a smaller population of junked cars to pull random EV pumps off of the way you can with some old car parts.
coldpie 11mo ago
Yeah, that's why that poster said "upfront" costs. EVs are like 10+ times cheaper than ICE cars in the long term, but we're making our children pay most of the costs of the ICE version, so it's cheaper for us. Yay for us, I guess?
bluGill 11mo ago
There are a lot of "it depends" in the math, it takes somewhere around 60-80k miles to break even on the $10k difference. Most new car owners only keep the car for around 30,000 miles (leases are often 3 years, max of 32,000 miles). And so far EVs are not holding their value as well as ICE cars so a few more miles. Long term EVs are a lot cheaper, but for the new car buyer they don't make financial sense yet. (new car buyers also get a warranty so additional costs are cheap - $600 for oil changes over that time if they buy the most expensive dealer package, and a lot less if they go elsewhere)

ZeroGravitas 11mo ago

That quote says Chinese buyers are buying more EVs. Which seems odd in an article claiming the global tide has turned against EVs. It's like some weird 3rd-hand sour grapes. Yes they bought the EV but they don't care about it being an EV! Which matters, for reasons...

zobzu 11mo ago
china stats reporting is worse than US stats - impossible to trust - it'll say everything and nothing every time.

Workaccount2 11mo ago

As climate change effects become undeniable and older hard heads die off, people will less and less be interested in fossil fuels. Oil and Gas doesn't even want to make investments that trump is pushing, because all those green subsidies and programs will likely come roaring back in a few years. The government may be gerrymandered and senate locked into a tight battle between red and blue, but consumer sentiment is purely popular vote. The trend is pretty clear that consumers want to get away from fossil fuels.

kieranmaine 11mo ago

> Additionally, ICE sales have started recovering over the past few years now that EV subsidizes have started being phased out in most markets I think this is a false dawn. EV sales in Germany have rebounded strongly after the removal of subsidies [1]. "Germany was the largest contributor, with more than 434,600 new EV registrations and one of the strongest growth rates in the bloc, up 39.4% year-on-year" EU EV sales are up in 2025 in comparison with 2024 [1] "Battery electric vehicles accounted for 16.4% of newly registered cars in the EU during the first ten months of 2025, according to figures from the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA). That compares with 13.2% over the same period in 2024." 1. https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/11/25/the-electric-transition-which-eu-country-is-buying-the-most-evs https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/11/25/the-electric-tr... 2. https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23=1&rs-pr=10000_25000&rs-er=0_500&rs-ld=0_500&rs-ac=2_23&rs-dcfc=0_400&rs-ub=10_200&rs-tw=0_2500&rs-ef=150_600&rs-sa=-1_5&rs-w=1000_3500&rs-c=0_5000&rs-y=2024_2030&s=4&p=0-50 https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23...