3 ms·

Most of them are correlating gemini-cli experience (trash) with the broader access to Gemini via studio or cloud (not at all a problem)

by verdverm 11mo ago

Leynos 11mo ago
They could always just use OpenCoder, Crush or Goose with OpenRouter (https://openrouter.ai/google/gemini-3-pro-preview https://openrouter.ai/google/gemini-3-pro-preview)
- verdverm 11mo ago
  Google has the ADK project, which is really good. Python is the primary implementation, Java is there, Go is relatively new and aiming for parity. They could have contributed the Typescript implementation and built on common, solid foundation, but alas, the hydra's heads are not communicating well These other "frameworks" are (1) built by people who need to sell something, so they are often tied to their current thinking and paid features (2) sit at the wrong level. ADK gives me building blocks for generalized agents, whereas most of these frameworks are tied to coding and some peculiarities you see there (like forcing you to deal with studio, no thanks). They also have too much abstraction and I want to be able to control the lower level knobs and levers ADK is the closest to what I've been looking for, an analog to kubernetes in the agentic space. Deal with the bs, give me great abstractions and building blocks to set me free. So many of the other frameworks want to box you into how they do things, today, given current understanding. ADK is minimal and easy to adjust as we learn things
  - FeepingCreature 11mo ago
    openrouter just gives you prompt in, result out in standard openai api format.
    - verdverm 11mo ago
      These projects are all a level above open router, they call the same standard APIs, or even custom ones and manage the translation. They do a lot more as well ADK has an option to use litellm (openrouter alternative), among many options https://google.github.io/adk-docs/agents/models/#using-cloud-proprietary-models-via-litellm https://google.github.io/adk-docs/agents/models/#using-cloud...
  - quleap 11mo ago
    ADK is anything but minimal. It indeed has too much abstraction. It's certainly designed to promote Google's own services. If you are looking for lightweight frameworks, consider smolagents or Pydantic AI. Even OpenAI Agents SDK is simpler. LangChain/LangGraph are the epitome of incompetent designs.
amluto 11mo ago
> Gemini via studio Excuse me? If you mean AI Studio, are you talking about the product where you can’t even switch which logged in account you’re using without agreeing to its terms under whatever random account it selected, where the ability to turn off training on your data does not obviously exist, and where it’s extremely unclear how an organization is supposed to pay for it?
- rezonant 11mo ago
  Yes, much like admin.google.com (the GSuite admin interface), which goes ahead and tries to two-factor your personal GMail account every single time you load it instead of asking you which of the actual GSuite accounts you're signed into you'd like to use...
  - amluto 11mo ago
    I love how the two factor screen has no obvious way to tell it that you want a different account. Hint: you can often avoid some of this mess by adding the authuser=user@domain to the URL.
  - Marsymars 11mo ago
    I long ago concluded that trying to mix multiple google (or MS) accounts in the same browser profile is a path to madness.
    - verdverm 11mo ago
      seriously, just use different chrome profiles, but part of the issue is that they are so interwoven you pretty much have to do this
  - andoando 11mo ago
    I always have a buggy ass hell experience with having multiple google accounts pretty much across all their services. I've been wondering if its just me or how the hell this is normal.
  - verdverm 11mo ago
arthurfirst 11mo ago
I have a claude max subscription and a gemini pro sub and I exclusively use them on the cli. When I run out of claude max each week I switch over to gemini and the results have been pretty impressive -- I did not want to like it but credit where credit is due to google. Like the OP others I didn't use the API for gemini and it was not obvious how to do that -- that said it's not cost effective to develop without a Sub vs on API pay-as-you-go, so i do no know why you would? Sure you need API for any applications with built-in LLM features, but not for developing in the LLM assisted CLI tools. I think the issue with cli tools for many is you need to be competent with cli like a an actual nix user not Mac first user etc. Personally I have over 30 years of daily shell use and a sysadmin and developer. I started with korn and csh and then every one you can think of since. For me any sort of a GUI slows me down so much it's not feasible. To say nothing of the physical aliments associated with excessive mousing. Having put approaching thousands of hours working with LLM coding tools so far, for me claude-code is the best, gemini is very close and might have a better interface, and codex is unusable and fights me the whole time.
- verdverm 11mo ago
  > it's not cost effective to develop without a Sub vs on API pay-as-you-go, so i do no know why you would My spend is lower, so I conclude otherwise > I think the issue with cli tools for many is... Came from that world, vim, nvim, my dev box is remote, homelab The issue is not that it is a CLI, it's that you are trying to develop software through the limited portal of a CLI. How do you look at multiple files at the same time? How do you scroll through that file 1. You cannot through a tool like gemini-cli 2. You are using another tool to look at files / diffs 3. You aren't looking at the code and vibe coding your way to future regret > or me any sort of a GUI slows me down so much it's not feasible. vim is a "gui" (tui), vs code has keyboard shortcuts, associating GUI with mouse work > Having put approaching thousands of hours working with LLM coding tools so far, for me claude-code is the best, gemini is very close and might have a better interface, and codex is unusable and fights me the whole time. Anecdotal "vibe" opinions are not useful. We need to do some real evals because people are telling stories like they do about their stock wins, i.e. they don't tell you about the losses. Thousands of hours sounds like your into the vibe coding / churning / outsourcing paradigm. There are better ways to leverage these tools. Also, if you have 1000+ hours of LLM time, how have you not gone below the prepackaged experience Big AI is selling you?

Most of them are correlating gemini-cli experience (trash) with the broader access to Gemini via studio or cloud (not at all a problem)

Leynos 11mo ago

They could always just use OpenCoder, Crush or Goose with OpenRouter (https://openrouter.ai/google/gemini-3-pro-preview https://openrouter.ai/google/gemini-3-pro-preview)

verdverm 11mo ago
Google has the ADK project, which is really good. Python is the primary implementation, Java is there, Go is relatively new and aiming for parity. They could have contributed the Typescript implementation and built on common, solid foundation, but alas, the hydra's heads are not communicating well These other "frameworks" are (1) built by people who need to sell something, so they are often tied to their current thinking and paid features (2) sit at the wrong level. ADK gives me building blocks for generalized agents, whereas most of these frameworks are tied to coding and some peculiarities you see there (like forcing you to deal with studio, no thanks). They also have too much abstraction and I want to be able to control the lower level knobs and levers ADK is the closest to what I've been looking for, an analog to kubernetes in the agentic space. Deal with the bs, give me great abstractions and building blocks to set me free. So many of the other frameworks want to box you into how they do things, today, given current understanding. ADK is minimal and easy to adjust as we learn things
- FeepingCreature 11mo ago
  openrouter just gives you prompt in, result out in standard openai api format.
  - verdverm 11mo ago
    These projects are all a level above open router, they call the same standard APIs, or even custom ones and manage the translation. They do a lot more as well ADK has an option to use litellm (openrouter alternative), among many options https://google.github.io/adk-docs/agents/models/#using-cloud-proprietary-models-via-litellm https://google.github.io/adk-docs/agents/models/#using-cloud...
- quleap 11mo ago
  ADK is anything but minimal. It indeed has too much abstraction. It's certainly designed to promote Google's own services. If you are looking for lightweight frameworks, consider smolagents or Pydantic AI. Even OpenAI Agents SDK is simpler. LangChain/LangGraph are the epitome of incompetent designs.

amluto 11mo ago

> Gemini via studio Excuse me? If you mean AI Studio, are you talking about the product where you can’t even switch which logged in account you’re using without agreeing to its terms under whatever random account it selected, where the ability to turn off training on your data does not obviously exist, and where it’s extremely unclear how an organization is supposed to pay for it?

rezonant 11mo ago
Yes, much like admin.google.com (the GSuite admin interface), which goes ahead and tries to two-factor your personal GMail account every single time you load it instead of asking you which of the actual GSuite accounts you're signed into you'd like to use...
- amluto 11mo ago
  I love how the two factor screen has no obvious way to tell it that you want a different account. Hint: you can often avoid some of this mess by adding the authuser=user@domain to the URL.
- Marsymars 11mo ago
  I long ago concluded that trying to mix multiple google (or MS) accounts in the same browser profile is a path to madness.
  - verdverm 11mo ago
    seriously, just use different chrome profiles, but part of the issue is that they are so interwoven you pretty much have to do this
- andoando 11mo ago
  I always have a buggy ass hell experience with having multiple google accounts pretty much across all their services. I've been wondering if its just me or how the hell this is normal.
- verdverm 11mo ago

arthurfirst 11mo ago

I have a claude max subscription and a gemini pro sub and I exclusively use them on the cli. When I run out of claude max each week I switch over to gemini and the results have been pretty impressive -- I did not want to like it but credit where credit is due to google. Like the OP others I didn't use the API for gemini and it was not obvious how to do that -- that said it's not cost effective to develop without a Sub vs on API pay-as-you-go, so i do no know why you would? Sure you need API for any applications with built-in LLM features, but not for developing in the LLM assisted CLI tools. I think the issue with cli tools for many is you need to be competent with cli like a an actual nix user not Mac first user etc. Personally I have over 30 years of daily shell use and a sysadmin and developer. I started with korn and csh and then every one you can think of since. For me any sort of a GUI slows me down so much it's not feasible. To say nothing of the physical aliments associated with excessive mousing. Having put approaching thousands of hours working with LLM coding tools so far, for me claude-code is the best, gemini is very close and might have a better interface, and codex is unusable and fights me the whole time.

verdverm 11mo ago
> it's not cost effective to develop without a Sub vs on API pay-as-you-go, so i do no know why you would My spend is lower, so I conclude otherwise > I think the issue with cli tools for many is... Came from that world, vim, nvim, my dev box is remote, homelab The issue is not that it is a CLI, it's that you are trying to develop software through the limited portal of a CLI. How do you look at multiple files at the same time? How do you scroll through that file 1. You cannot through a tool like gemini-cli 2. You are using another tool to look at files / diffs 3. You aren't looking at the code and vibe coding your way to future regret > or me any sort of a GUI slows me down so much it's not feasible. vim is a "gui" (tui), vs code has keyboard shortcuts, associating GUI with mouse work > Having put approaching thousands of hours working with LLM coding tools so far, for me claude-code is the best, gemini is very close and might have a better interface, and codex is unusable and fights me the whole time. Anecdotal "vibe" opinions are not useful. We need to do some real evals because people are telling stories like they do about their stock wins, i.e. they don't tell you about the losses. Thousands of hours sounds like your into the vibe coding / churning / outsourcing paradigm. There are better ways to leverage these tools. Also, if you have 1000+ hours of LLM time, how have you not gone below the prepackaged experience Big AI is selling you?