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> rather than being penalized The problem is, currently doing any kind of content filtering, as in making illegal stuff hard to find, and having a moderated se

> rather than being penalized The problem is, currently doing any kind of content filtering, as in making illegal stuff hard to find, and having a moderated semi walled garden, plays right into the noisy fuckers brigade. If I were to design a TV programme which is aimed at 11-16 year olds, where I just play soft porn every 15 seconds, offer guides on how to do financial scams, and encourage the children to hide away from their parents as they watch. it would be banned instantly, regardless of how much "good" content I put in there. People would say it's irresponsible to expose kids of that age to such things. Yet, here we have social media doing just the same. The reason why we make it illegal to beat kids, sell them smokes, drugs, booze and generally treat them like shit, is because we want well rounded functioning kids who are able to live a long an illustrious life as part of society. Giving them a device that feeds them war, porn, rage bait, and huge lies, all for the profit of a few hundred people in america seems somewhat misguided.

whimsicalism 11mo ago
I'm glad when I was a teenager the adults in my life were less concerned with protecting me from wrongthought. Are modern teenagers more or less credulous consumers of information than adults, I wonder.
- roguecoder 11mo ago
  Where did you grow up? Because America in the 80s was all about shutting teenagers out of violent video games and music with naughty words.
  - whimsicalism 11mo ago
    I grew up in DC in the 21st century.
    - ndriscoll 11mo ago
      Things used to be more scrutinized. e.g. look at the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Hot Coffee controversy and legal fallout over sexual content that existed in the game data files but could only be accessed by modding the game, at which point you could just mod the content in. Porn websites also used to generally put anything explicit behind a credit card barrier, and there was an attempt to require that that the supreme court struck down.
      - whimsicalism 11mo ago
        maybe the early aughts, none of this was the case when i was a teen it was basically unencumbered access
      - heavyset_go 11mo ago
        That was just a handful of loud busybodies, and society was smart enough then to not hand them the legal reins to placate them.
    - lkramer 11mo ago
      Try go get a beer as an 18 year old then :)
      - whimsicalism 11mo ago
        A beer is almost exclusively a negative thing. Access to youtube…?
    - Novosell 11mo ago
      Pretty sure the US has had things such as age ratings for movies, which are enforced when possible, and laws around advertising to children and false advertising for quite some time. I miss the good ol' days when you could see some cut off breasts alongside the snake oil ads in the papers. People are so stupid these days.
- KaiserPro 11mo ago
  > when I was a teenager the adults in my life were less concerned with protecting me from wrongthought V-chip, movie ratings, music ratings, top shelf magazines, raising the age for smokes, the water shed, censorship of tv networks, chat rooms, computer in the living room, primitive walled gardens (AOL et al) All of the "it was freer in my youth bollocks" is just that. Bollocks. But, I see that you like the idea of a person's social/sexual education being shaped by misanthropes looking to grift a new lifestlye for themselves regardless of the harm it causes others. All for profit and power. Not for betterment of the world. > Are modern teenagers more or less credulous consumers of information than adults, I wonder. The first example of something that you see is normally a big opinion former. If you see the local big city constantly portrayed at a lawless hell hole, its going to stick with you. As will the the race baiting, as will the utter bollocks herbal-remedy-cures-cancer 100% of the time shtick. Espeically if you've not got far enough through school to develop research skills, or critical thinking skills.
  - whimsicalism 11mo ago
    > All of the "it was freer in my youth bollocks" is just that. Bollocks. But, I see that you like the idea of a person's social/sexual education being shaped by misanthropes looking to grift a new lifestlye for themselves regardless of the harm it causes others. All for profit and power. Not for betterment of the world. Uh, yeah - I never had to show an ID to use the internet and I could use the internet however I damn well pleased. "All for profit and power" -> No, I learned a lot from the internet, it changed my life in a positive way. None of the things you mentioned are even remotely the same scope as requiring ID to use parts of the internet. I could still watch mature movies, v-chip was irrelevant in my life, smoking is completely different, etc. etc. The answer to my question is that teenagers today are obviously less credulous than the adults in their lives and you can see this every time you interact with older adults.
    - poolnoodle 11mo ago
      The parts of the internet that are now banned for Australian teenagers are unlikely to change their lives in a positive way and much more likely to lead them into mental illness.
- 9dev 11mo ago
  It’s not about wrongthought, but manipulation and deception, blended with advertisements exploiting child psychology, coupled with peer pressure.
- aeonfox 11mo ago
  It's not so much teenage credulity, or coddling parents. Teen suicide is the easily quantifiable tip of the iceberg when it comes to mental health outcomes. Conspicuously it started trended up after 2008, around the nascence of Facebook and smartphones: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2821658#zld240112f1 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... > Following a downward trend until 2007, suicide rates significantly increased 8.2% annually from 2008 to 2022, corresponding to a significant increase in the overall rates between 2001 to 2007 and 2008 to 2022 (3.34 to 5.71 per 1 million; IRR, 1.71)
  - heavyset_go 11mo ago
    That's also when the Great Recession happened, giving young people bleak outlooks for their future, outlooks which never really recovered. Nothing was fixed, and things have only gotten worse since then.
    - aeonfox 11mo ago
      The data doesn't bear that out. I remember the GFC well because my whole industry imploded during it. It certainly did recover by every measure. US GDP: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP US unemployment: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... S&P 500: https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... US inflation rate: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl...
      - heavyset_go 11mo ago
        > US GDP: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP GDP doesn't matter much when your life will be worse than your parents'. > US unemployment: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... Dead end jobs with little to no benefits, no pensions, time off, low pay and few hours count as "employment". Their parents and grandparents had pensions and could work at one employer for the entirety of their careers with growth opportunities, and could afford homes and healthcare while doing so. That was a big part of the shift in 2008. > S&P 500: https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... Doesn't matter to a kid without significant ownership of financial assets. > US inflation rate: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl... Post the wages vs productivity graph for the last 20 years, it's more applicable to concerns of students and young adults.
- superxpro12 11mo ago
  It's not remotely the same thing. Social media apps are highly engineered addiction serotonin-drips. You had wrongthought because back then there was at least a chance that the material was objective. Today you have Fox News et.al. and scores of highly propagandized feeds spewing nothing but agenda-pushing propaganda. It's not the same.
roguecoder 11mo ago
In America, we haven't made it illegal to assault children. We should, but we haven't.

whimsicalism 11mo ago

I'm glad when I was a teenager the adults in my life were less concerned with protecting me from wrongthought. Are modern teenagers more or less credulous consumers of information than adults, I wonder.

roguecoder 11mo ago
Where did you grow up? Because America in the 80s was all about shutting teenagers out of violent video games and music with naughty words.
- whimsicalism 11mo ago
  I grew up in DC in the 21st century.
  - ndriscoll 11mo ago
    Things used to be more scrutinized. e.g. look at the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Hot Coffee controversy and legal fallout over sexual content that existed in the game data files but could only be accessed by modding the game, at which point you could just mod the content in. Porn websites also used to generally put anything explicit behind a credit card barrier, and there was an attempt to require that that the supreme court struck down.
    - whimsicalism 11mo ago
      maybe the early aughts, none of this was the case when i was a teen it was basically unencumbered access
    - heavyset_go 11mo ago
      That was just a handful of loud busybodies, and society was smart enough then to not hand them the legal reins to placate them.
  - lkramer 11mo ago
    Try go get a beer as an 18 year old then :)
    - whimsicalism 11mo ago
      A beer is almost exclusively a negative thing. Access to youtube…?
  - Novosell 11mo ago
    Pretty sure the US has had things such as age ratings for movies, which are enforced when possible, and laws around advertising to children and false advertising for quite some time. I miss the good ol' days when you could see some cut off breasts alongside the snake oil ads in the papers. People are so stupid these days.
KaiserPro 11mo ago
> when I was a teenager the adults in my life were less concerned with protecting me from wrongthought V-chip, movie ratings, music ratings, top shelf magazines, raising the age for smokes, the water shed, censorship of tv networks, chat rooms, computer in the living room, primitive walled gardens (AOL et al) All of the "it was freer in my youth bollocks" is just that. Bollocks. But, I see that you like the idea of a person's social/sexual education being shaped by misanthropes looking to grift a new lifestlye for themselves regardless of the harm it causes others. All for profit and power. Not for betterment of the world. > Are modern teenagers more or less credulous consumers of information than adults, I wonder. The first example of something that you see is normally a big opinion former. If you see the local big city constantly portrayed at a lawless hell hole, its going to stick with you. As will the the race baiting, as will the utter bollocks herbal-remedy-cures-cancer 100% of the time shtick. Espeically if you've not got far enough through school to develop research skills, or critical thinking skills.
- whimsicalism 11mo ago
  > All of the "it was freer in my youth bollocks" is just that. Bollocks. But, I see that you like the idea of a person's social/sexual education being shaped by misanthropes looking to grift a new lifestlye for themselves regardless of the harm it causes others. All for profit and power. Not for betterment of the world. Uh, yeah - I never had to show an ID to use the internet and I could use the internet however I damn well pleased. "All for profit and power" -> No, I learned a lot from the internet, it changed my life in a positive way. None of the things you mentioned are even remotely the same scope as requiring ID to use parts of the internet. I could still watch mature movies, v-chip was irrelevant in my life, smoking is completely different, etc. etc. The answer to my question is that teenagers today are obviously less credulous than the adults in their lives and you can see this every time you interact with older adults.
  - poolnoodle 11mo ago
    The parts of the internet that are now banned for Australian teenagers are unlikely to change their lives in a positive way and much more likely to lead them into mental illness.
9dev 11mo ago
It’s not about wrongthought, but manipulation and deception, blended with advertisements exploiting child psychology, coupled with peer pressure.
aeonfox 11mo ago
It's not so much teenage credulity, or coddling parents. Teen suicide is the easily quantifiable tip of the iceberg when it comes to mental health outcomes. Conspicuously it started trended up after 2008, around the nascence of Facebook and smartphones: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2821658#zld240112f1 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... > Following a downward trend until 2007, suicide rates significantly increased 8.2% annually from 2008 to 2022, corresponding to a significant increase in the overall rates between 2001 to 2007 and 2008 to 2022 (3.34 to 5.71 per 1 million; IRR, 1.71)
- heavyset_go 11mo ago
  That's also when the Great Recession happened, giving young people bleak outlooks for their future, outlooks which never really recovered. Nothing was fixed, and things have only gotten worse since then.
  - aeonfox 11mo ago
    The data doesn't bear that out. I remember the GFC well because my whole industry imploded during it. It certainly did recover by every measure. US GDP: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP US unemployment: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... S&P 500: https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... US inflation rate: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl...
    - heavyset_go 11mo ago
      > US GDP: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP GDP doesn't matter much when your life will be worse than your parents'. > US unemployment: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-une... Dead end jobs with little to no benefits, no pensions, time off, low pay and few hours count as "employment". Their parents and grandparents had pensions and could work at one employer for the entirety of their careers with growth opportunities, and could afford homes and healthcare while doing so. That was a big part of the shift in 2008. > S&P 500: https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat... Doesn't matter to a kid without significant ownership of financial assets. > US inflation rate: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl... Post the wages vs productivity graph for the last 20 years, it's more applicable to concerns of students and young adults.
superxpro12 11mo ago
It's not remotely the same thing. Social media apps are highly engineered addiction serotonin-drips. You had wrongthought because back then there was at least a chance that the material was objective. Today you have Fox News et.al. and scores of highly propagandized feeds spewing nothing but agenda-pushing propaganda. It's not the same.

roguecoder 11mo ago

In America, we haven't made it illegal to assault children. We should, but we haven't.