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We also have the issue of "digital natives." In programming, there is a difference in someone who learned computers in college, someone who learned computers i

by jaxn 14y ago

We also have the issue of "digital natives." In programming, there is a difference in someone who learned computers in college, someone who learned computers in high school, and someone who learned computers in grade school. Then the next wave was kids who grew up with the internet. I suspect it will continue with kids who grew up with touch devices. I don't think there is a similar parallel in other industries.

ra 14y ago
I'm 37 years of age I've been programming since the age of 7 (1982), and programming for the Internet since 17 (1992); that's 30 years of software development and 20 years of Internet/network programming; mostly web and mostly for government or in commercial environments and in more languages and frameworks that I care to remember. Today I consider my judgement, that is to say, my ability to forsee the path of a project, or anticipate and avoid complexity to be better than it ever has been in the past, and think this is one of my strongest and most marketable skills. Yes I still learn new things (faster than ever), and yes I am still very productive. Am I a "digital native"?
rayiner 14y ago
I don't really buy who "kids who grew up with touch devices" might make better programmers than the generation of people who built Windows, NeXTStep, etc, who are in their 50's and 60's right now. Hell, Knuth is 74. The fundamentals of programming, as an engineering field, haven't really changed since the 1980's.
- goblin89 14y ago
  "Kids who grew up with touch devices" may not necessarily make better programmers, but there's such factor as being comfortable with tools, I guess. It's like the language. You spend a lot of time observing and using the system (writing, speaking)—even without full understanding—and you get comfortable: you easily distinguish between characters, recognize speech, can quickly and legibly write. It takes much less effort to apply this knowledge to do successfully things that may require it. Likewise, if you spend a lot of time around computers, it takes much less effort then to use them for many things, including programming, since computers (or, maybe in future, touch devices) are tools we use for programming.
- maigret 14y ago
  Cannot emphasis that enough. I would even argue the opposite: people who are now older than 30 did have the possibility to hack much nearer to the hardware of the devices, and could understand how they work. Now, because the tech is both so well packaged and more complex than before, no one tinker with devices really anymore. Sure, there is stuff like Arduino, but this is really reserved to a couple hackers. You don't have a Arduino hacker in every classroom. So maybe the digital natives are more comfortable with SMS and social media, but that doesn't mean they do better software or hardware developers.
- tinco 14y ago
  Would you argue knuth is a good modern software developer? Have you ever used latex? It's an outdated unmaintainable piece of crap.. Did he develop anything we would call good software in the past ten years?
  - whatshisface 14y ago
    Knuth is not a developer, he is a computer scientist. The standard CS career path is not yet well trodden, maybe we are all supposed to turn into managers and high-level researchers as we get older?
  - eru 14y ago
    Knuth didn't develop LaTeX.

by jaxn 14y ago

ra 14y ago

I'm 37 years of age I've been programming since the age of 7 (1982), and programming for the Internet since 17 (1992); that's 30 years of software development and 20 years of Internet/network programming; mostly web and mostly for government or in commercial environments and in more languages and frameworks that I care to remember. Today I consider my judgement, that is to say, my ability to forsee the path of a project, or anticipate and avoid complexity to be better than it ever has been in the past, and think this is one of my strongest and most marketable skills. Yes I still learn new things (faster than ever), and yes I am still very productive. Am I a "digital native"?

rayiner 14y ago

I don't really buy who "kids who grew up with touch devices" might make better programmers than the generation of people who built Windows, NeXTStep, etc, who are in their 50's and 60's right now. Hell, Knuth is 74. The fundamentals of programming, as an engineering field, haven't really changed since the 1980's.

goblin89 14y ago
"Kids who grew up with touch devices" may not necessarily make better programmers, but there's such factor as being comfortable with tools, I guess. It's like the language. You spend a lot of time observing and using the system (writing, speaking)—even without full understanding—and you get comfortable: you easily distinguish between characters, recognize speech, can quickly and legibly write. It takes much less effort to apply this knowledge to do successfully things that may require it. Likewise, if you spend a lot of time around computers, it takes much less effort then to use them for many things, including programming, since computers (or, maybe in future, touch devices) are tools we use for programming.
maigret 14y ago
Cannot emphasis that enough. I would even argue the opposite: people who are now older than 30 did have the possibility to hack much nearer to the hardware of the devices, and could understand how they work. Now, because the tech is both so well packaged and more complex than before, no one tinker with devices really anymore. Sure, there is stuff like Arduino, but this is really reserved to a couple hackers. You don't have a Arduino hacker in every classroom. So maybe the digital natives are more comfortable with SMS and social media, but that doesn't mean they do better software or hardware developers.
tinco 14y ago
Would you argue knuth is a good modern software developer? Have you ever used latex? It's an outdated unmaintainable piece of crap.. Did he develop anything we would call good software in the past ten years?
- whatshisface 14y ago
  Knuth is not a developer, he is a computer scientist. The standard CS career path is not yet well trodden, maybe we are all supposed to turn into managers and high-level researchers as we get older?
- eru 14y ago
  Knuth didn't develop LaTeX.