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The line right after this is much worse: > Coding performed by AI is at a world-class level, something that wasn’t so just a year ago. Wow, finance people cer

by kscarlet 10mo ago

The line right after this is much worse: > Coding performed by AI is at a world-class level, something that wasn’t so just a year ago. Wow, finance people certainly don't understand programming.

mcv 10mo ago
World class? Then what am I? I frequently work with Copilot and Claude Sonnet, and it can be useful, but trusting it to write code for anything moderately complicated is a bad idea. I am impressed by its ability to generate and analyse code, but its code almost never works the first time, unless it's trivial boilerplate stuff, and its analysis is wrong half the time. It's very useful if you have the knowledge and experience to tell when it's wrong. That is the absolutely vital skill to work with these systems. In the right circumstances, they can work miracles in a very short time. But if they're wrong, they can easily waste hours or more following the wrong track. It's fast, it's very well-read, and it's sometimes correct. That's my analysis of it.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- formerly_proven 10mo ago
  Copilot is easily the worst (and probably slowest) coding agent. SOTA and Copilot don't even inhabit similar planes of existence.
  - RobinL 10mo ago
    I've found Opus 4.5 in copilot to be very impressive. Better than codex CLI in my experience. I agree Copilot definitely used to be absolutely awful.
    - whimsicalism 10mo ago
      cursor is better than both, i wish this weren’t the case tbph
- malfist 10mo ago
  Is this why AI is telling us our every idea is brilliant and great? Because their code doesn't stand up to what we can do?
  - AmericanOP 10mo ago
    Whichever PM sold glazing as a core feature should be ejected into space.
- skydhash 10mo ago
  > I frequently work with Copilot and Claude Sonnet, and it can be useful, but trusting it to write code for anything moderately complicated is a bad idea This sentence and the rest of the post reads like an horoscope advice. Like "It can be good if you use it well, it may be bad if you don't". It's pretty much the same as saying a coin may land on head or on tail.
  - hatthew 10mo ago
    saying "a coin may land on head or on tail" is useful when other people are saying "we will soon have coins that always land on heads"
    - bdangubic 10mo ago
      this is doable, you just have to rig the coin
- RHSman2 10mo ago
  Because people who can’t code but now can have zero understanding of the ‘path to production quality code’ Of course it is mind blowing for them.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
- n8cpdx 10mo ago
  > Including how it looks at the surrounding code and patterns. Citation needed. Even with specific examples, “follow the patterns from the existing tests”, etc copilot (gpt 5) still insists on generating tests using the wrong methods (“describe” and “it” in a codebase that uses “suite” and “test”). An intern, even an intern with a severe cognitive disability, would not be so bad at pattern following.
  - formerly_proven 10mo ago
    Do you think smart companies seeking to leverage AI effectively in their engineering orgs are using the 20$ slopify subscription from Microsoft? You get what you pay for.
    - n8cpdx 10mo ago
      Every time a new model or tool comes out, the AI boosters love to say that n-1 was garbage and finally AI vibecoding is the real deal and it will make you 10x more productive. Except six months ago n-1 was n and the boosters were busy ruining their credibility saying that their garbage tier AI was world class and making them 10x more productive. Today’s leading world-class agentic model is tomorrow’s horrible garbage tier slop generator that was patently never good enough to be taken seriously. This has been going on for years, the pattern is obvious and undeniable.
      - formerly_proven 10mo ago
        I can obviously only speak for myself, but I've tried AI coding tools from time to time and with Opus 4.5 I have for the first time the impression that it is genuinely helpful for a variety of tasks. I've never previously claimed that I find them useful. And 10x more productive? Certainly not, even if it would improve development speed 10000x I wouldn't be 10x more productive overall since not even half of my time is directed towards development efforts.
selectodude 10mo ago
They don’t. I’ve gone from rickety and slow excel sheets and maybe some python functions to automate small things that I can figure out to building out entire data pipelines. It’s incredible how much more efficient we’ve gotten.
clickety_clack 10mo ago
Ask ChatGPT “is AI programming world class?”
venturecruelty 10mo ago
Of course not, why would they? They understand making money, and what makes money right now? What would be antithetical to making money? Why might we be doing one thing and not another? The lines are bright and red and flashing.
sshadmand 10mo ago
Finance people are funny. They are so wrong when you hear their logic and references, but I also realized it doesn't matter. It is trends they try to predict, fuzzy directional signals, not facts of the moment.

The line right after this is much worse: > Coding performed by AI is at a world-class level, something that wasn’t so just a year ago. Wow, finance people certainly don't understand programming.

mcv 10mo ago

World class? Then what am I? I frequently work with Copilot and Claude Sonnet, and it can be useful, but trusting it to write code for anything moderately complicated is a bad idea. I am impressed by its ability to generate and analyse code, but its code almost never works the first time, unless it's trivial boilerplate stuff, and its analysis is wrong half the time. It's very useful if you have the knowledge and experience to tell when it's wrong. That is the absolutely vital skill to work with these systems. In the right circumstances, they can work miracles in a very short time. But if they're wrong, they can easily waste hours or more following the wrong track. It's fast, it's very well-read, and it's sometimes correct. That's my analysis of it.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
formerly_proven 10mo ago
Copilot is easily the worst (and probably slowest) coding agent. SOTA and Copilot don't even inhabit similar planes of existence.
- RobinL 10mo ago
  I've found Opus 4.5 in copilot to be very impressive. Better than codex CLI in my experience. I agree Copilot definitely used to be absolutely awful.
  - whimsicalism 10mo ago
    cursor is better than both, i wish this weren’t the case tbph
malfist 10mo ago
Is this why AI is telling us our every idea is brilliant and great? Because their code doesn't stand up to what we can do?
- AmericanOP 10mo ago
  Whichever PM sold glazing as a core feature should be ejected into space.
skydhash 10mo ago
> I frequently work with Copilot and Claude Sonnet, and it can be useful, but trusting it to write code for anything moderately complicated is a bad idea This sentence and the rest of the post reads like an horoscope advice. Like "It can be good if you use it well, it may be bad if you don't". It's pretty much the same as saying a coin may land on head or on tail.
- hatthew 10mo ago
  saying "a coin may land on head or on tail" is useful when other people are saying "we will soon have coins that always land on heads"
  - bdangubic 10mo ago
    this is doable, you just have to rig the coin
RHSman2 10mo ago
Because people who can’t code but now can have zero understanding of the ‘path to production quality code’ Of course it is mind blowing for them.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

n8cpdx 10mo ago
> Including how it looks at the surrounding code and patterns. Citation needed. Even with specific examples, “follow the patterns from the existing tests”, etc copilot (gpt 5) still insists on generating tests using the wrong methods (“describe” and “it” in a codebase that uses “suite” and “test”). An intern, even an intern with a severe cognitive disability, would not be so bad at pattern following.
- formerly_proven 10mo ago
  Do you think smart companies seeking to leverage AI effectively in their engineering orgs are using the 20$ slopify subscription from Microsoft? You get what you pay for.
  - n8cpdx 10mo ago
    Every time a new model or tool comes out, the AI boosters love to say that n-1 was garbage and finally AI vibecoding is the real deal and it will make you 10x more productive. Except six months ago n-1 was n and the boosters were busy ruining their credibility saying that their garbage tier AI was world class and making them 10x more productive. Today’s leading world-class agentic model is tomorrow’s horrible garbage tier slop generator that was patently never good enough to be taken seriously. This has been going on for years, the pattern is obvious and undeniable.
    - formerly_proven 10mo ago
      I can obviously only speak for myself, but I've tried AI coding tools from time to time and with Opus 4.5 I have for the first time the impression that it is genuinely helpful for a variety of tasks. I've never previously claimed that I find them useful. And 10x more productive? Certainly not, even if it would improve development speed 10000x I wouldn't be 10x more productive overall since not even half of my time is directed towards development efforts.

selectodude 10mo ago

They don’t. I’ve gone from rickety and slow excel sheets and maybe some python functions to automate small things that I can figure out to building out entire data pipelines. It’s incredible how much more efficient we’ve gotten.

clickety_clack 10mo ago

Ask ChatGPT “is AI programming world class?”

venturecruelty 10mo ago

Of course not, why would they? They understand making money, and what makes money right now? What would be antithetical to making money? Why might we be doing one thing and not another? The lines are bright and red and flashing.

sshadmand 10mo ago

Finance people are funny. They are so wrong when you hear their logic and references, but I also realized it doesn't matter. It is trends they try to predict, fuzzy directional signals, not facts of the moment.