6 ms·

You are allowed to say it. Unlike UK, you won’t be arrested. But you won’t be allowed in. Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here?

by dogemaster2028 10mo ago

nness 10mo ago
Who is being arrested in the UK?
- dogemaster2028 10mo ago
  - Jon Richelieu-Booth for posting a picture of himself with a gun in the US - Jordan Parlour for Facebook posts that were deemed ‘hateful.’ - Bernadette Spofforth for a post with a “mild inaccuracy” - Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine, after raising concerns in a private parents’ WhatsApp group about the hiring process of their daughter’s school - Lucy Connolly, for a post calling for mass deportation and to set fire to hotels housing immigrants - Norbert Gyurcsik, for having “extreme right wing music” Germany, you too.
  - ponector 10mo ago
    Don't you think people should have consequences for the hate speech?
    - DaSHacka 10mo ago
      When "hate speech" is defined as "all speech the government does not approve of", no.
    - dogemaster2032 10mo ago
      Everything that a certain population of the US correlated with the color Blue dislikes is considered hate speech by them, so things become impractical. Thankfully there are fewer and fewer snowflakes.
      - beedeebeedee 10mo ago
        The trump administration is labeling people against fascism as domestic terrorists. Please don’t make this website Reddit with your idiotic views about ‘snowflakes’
        dogemaster2028 10mo ago
        [dead]
        dogemaster2032 10mo ago
        People can be terrorists regardless of what they are against. You can be against anything you want, just don’t terrorize and nobody would call you a terrorist. And by the way many are foreigners, not domestic.
  - nness 10mo ago
    I mean, a quick search of all of these people, and you can find something which absolutely warranted police investigation. That's the police doing what they're meant to do — investigate and ensure public safety. - Jon Richelieu-Booth was investigated for stalking and making threats. The gun photo was not part of the police investigation. - Jordan Parlour was charged for suggesting attacking hotels housing asylum seekers. - Bernadette Spofforth was investigated for distributing misinformation with the intent to incite violence. - Lucy Connolly for exactly what you say, inciting violence - Norbert Gyurcsik had and was selling terrorist materials. (Just because you pair something illegal in a melody doesn't change its content...) (With the exception of Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine, which was an unlawful arrest and they were had restitution for it.)
  - vidarh 10mo ago
    > - Jon Richelieu-Booth for posting a picture of himself with a gun in the US A quick search suggests that the photo with the gun wasn't the sole cause of the arrest, given there were stalking allegations "involving serious alarm or distress" from someone he had a conflict with, where the gun was one part of what caused the complainint to (claim to) feel threatened. Police may well have overreacted due to the gun post, but your framing leaves out rather relevant details. > - Jordan Parlour for Facebook posts that were deemed ‘hateful.’ Appears to have incited violence by advocating an attack on a hotel, something he pleaded guilty to. > - Bernadette Spofforth for a post with a “mild inaccuracy” Was arrested for posting a fake name for an attacker, but released and faced no further action. Calling potentially putting a target on the back of someone innocent by connecting them to a violent crime a "mild inaccuracy" is at best wildly misleading. > Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine These people did get a wrongful arrest payout, but the claim was most certainly not just raising concerns in a private parent's WhatsApp group. The claims including harassment, and causing a nuisance on the school premises. The claim was still wrong, and the payout reflects that the police should not have been so quick to believe the allegations before making an arrest. But your claim is still hyperbole. > - Lucy Connolly, for a post calling for mass deportation and to set fire to hotels housing immigrants At least in this one you admitted the arrest was over incitement to violence. > - Norbert Gyurcsik, for having “extreme right wing music” No, for buying and distributing albums whose lyrics breach terrorism legislation and intended to incite racial hatred. I have plenty of issues with UK terror legislation, which I believe is being abused to shut down legitimate speech at times, but framing this the way you did is again wildly misleading and hyperbolic. But even if none of your claims were wildly misleading, none of them support your initial claim: > You are allowed to say it. Unlike UK, you won’t be arrested. But you won’t be allowed in. ... about a comment referring to criticism of the government. None of the cases above were relevant to that. Most of them are relating to classes of speech that are not protected in the US either.
embedding-shape 10mo ago
> Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? Family, work, others in the group who enjoy it, the level of enjoyment might still be above the level of frustration, wanting to help, emergencies, etc. I could think of many reasons one would want to go to a country even though you disagree with ~50% the population + current leaders. I've been in North Korea as an example, but I'd never claim to support the ideas and politics of their leader(s).
- dogemaster2028 10mo ago
  If I was speaking badly about you in social media, I would understand it if you don’t want me at your house.
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    Sure, be one-sided if that's how you want to live you life. The rest of us will continue with nuance, and talk to people we disagree about, and favor freedom of expression above conformity. But again, you do you, I'm not asking you to change your opinion, just understand that many value other values.
  - stfp 10mo ago
    Criticizing fascists isn’t “speaking badly” of the US or of american people. A vast majority of people aren’t happy about what’s going on.
    - embedding-shape 10mo ago
      > A vast majority of people aren’t happy about what’s going on. What makes you say that? Granted, I'm just an outside observer trying to see what's going on, but since the majority isn't protesting as far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like the majority doesn't care too much currently. Probably most people are in a dire enough situation that they cannot afford to protest, and are busy enough trying to figure out how to re-organize their living situation.
vidarh 10mo ago
I live in the UK and have said worse than that about UK governments under full name with no negative effects. The idea you'll be arrested for mere criticism of the government in the UK is utter nonsense.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- chrisjj 10mo ago
  > have said worse than that about UK governments under full name with no negative effects. ... that you know of.
  - vidarh 10mo ago
    This is hysterical. What actions is it you imagine the UK government would have taken to disadvantage me in secret because of what I've said about them that have been so inconsequential that I haven't noticed them?
    - chrisjj 10mo ago
      I'd guess you'd find out if you applied for a job with that govt.
tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
There are plenty of things to like about America if you put aside the politics. Personally I wouldn’t bother though. We were considering a trip to Florida next year but decided on France instead due to the widespread xenophobia.
- rayiner 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
    You know what I meant.
    - rayiner 10mo ago
      I genuinely don’t. The French are famously xenophobic. Even Americans who are xenophobic in principle are not so in practice (which is why the so-called American “far right” is full of immigrants, and why anti-immigration Trump won a narrow majority of naturalized citizens in 2024). Meanwhile, the French are not xenophobic in principle but are very much so in practice.
notrealyme123 10mo ago
"Freedom of speech" i can really feel how free it is over there. Freedom to not let people in with other opinions, and freedom to force your opinion onto other countries. Really great.
- DaSHacka 10mo ago
  > Freedom to not let people in with other opinions Yeah, that's more or less what it means to have a border. > and freedom to force your opinion onto other countries. Really great. They are free to reject it, as we have theirs. You should be happy USAID was shut down.
  - notrealyme123 10mo ago
    Crazy how china became the good guys here. Well played.
    - DaSHacka 10mo ago
      Yeah, turns out the government taking a strong-arm approach to managing private industry and enforcing cultural cohesion is not necessarily a bad thing. Half things people criticize the current administration for enforcing wouldn't fly in China either (and more), but the real and final blackpill is we really should be copying them in more ways than one. And we don't even have things like hidden police officers stalking influencers that conveniently drop by to check on them when they show something problematic on stream. (See: Hasan's recent trip to China, where officers surrounded him to check his phone within 30 seconds of him showing a Xi Jinping meme to his stream)
daveoc64 10mo ago
>Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? There's a difference between saying that you disagree with the way that a country is being run, and wanting to be violent or pursue criminal activity against that country or its people. What you're missing is that the former should be legal in any democracy (and is in the UK), and the latter shouldn't be legal anywhere (and isn't in the UK). You're claiming the UK lacks "freedom of speech" because it doesn't allow people to incite violence online, while saying the USA has free speech, despite it seemingly rejecting visitors for legal political speech. I know which side of the pond I'd rather be on.
- cess11 10mo ago
  'You're claiming the UK lacks "freedom of speech" because it doesn't allow people to incite violence online, while saying the USA has free speech, despite it seemingly rejecting visitors for legal political speech.' Voicing support for the group Palestine Action has been met with quite harsh responses in the UK, even though that group is arguably non-violent in that its criminal actions are directed towards property with the aim of slowing actual violence. There are other similar developments in UK state policy.
  - hermitcrab 10mo ago
    >Voicing support for the group Palestine Action has been met with quite harsh responses in the UK, even though that group is arguably non-violent That was my opinion. However one of them was alleged at a recent trial to have hit and injured a policewoman with a sledgehammer.
    - cess11 10mo ago
      Video from the incident: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-obhMBSWi4c https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-obhMBSWi4c BBC reporting: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1dzq41n4l9o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1dzq41n4l9o The accused person claims to have panicked due to how the police were interfering. If I understand the article correctly the cop was off work for three months due to the injury.
scarecrowbob 10mo ago
Hell, I -live- here and they wouldn't let me in. I like plenty of folks in, for instance, Texas. I still think the government there is illegitimate in foundation and criminal in action.
morkalork 10mo ago
>Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? Good ol "if you don't love it, leave it" argument. Nothing beats that!
- dogemaster2028 10mo ago
  [dead]

You are allowed to say it. Unlike UK, you won’t be arrested. But you won’t be allowed in. Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here?

nness 10mo ago

Who is being arrested in the UK?

dogemaster2028 10mo ago
- Jon Richelieu-Booth for posting a picture of himself with a gun in the US - Jordan Parlour for Facebook posts that were deemed ‘hateful.’ - Bernadette Spofforth for a post with a “mild inaccuracy” - Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine, after raising concerns in a private parents’ WhatsApp group about the hiring process of their daughter’s school - Lucy Connolly, for a post calling for mass deportation and to set fire to hotels housing immigrants - Norbert Gyurcsik, for having “extreme right wing music” Germany, you too.
- ponector 10mo ago
  Don't you think people should have consequences for the hate speech?
  - DaSHacka 10mo ago
    When "hate speech" is defined as "all speech the government does not approve of", no.
  - dogemaster2032 10mo ago
    Everything that a certain population of the US correlated with the color Blue dislikes is considered hate speech by them, so things become impractical. Thankfully there are fewer and fewer snowflakes.
    - beedeebeedee 10mo ago
      The trump administration is labeling people against fascism as domestic terrorists. Please don’t make this website Reddit with your idiotic views about ‘snowflakes’
      - dogemaster2028 10mo ago
        [dead]
      - dogemaster2032 10mo ago
        People can be terrorists regardless of what they are against. You can be against anything you want, just don’t terrorize and nobody would call you a terrorist. And by the way many are foreigners, not domestic.
- nness 10mo ago
  I mean, a quick search of all of these people, and you can find something which absolutely warranted police investigation. That's the police doing what they're meant to do — investigate and ensure public safety. - Jon Richelieu-Booth was investigated for stalking and making threats. The gun photo was not part of the police investigation. - Jordan Parlour was charged for suggesting attacking hotels housing asylum seekers. - Bernadette Spofforth was investigated for distributing misinformation with the intent to incite violence. - Lucy Connolly for exactly what you say, inciting violence - Norbert Gyurcsik had and was selling terrorist materials. (Just because you pair something illegal in a melody doesn't change its content...) (With the exception of Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine, which was an unlawful arrest and they were had restitution for it.)
- vidarh 10mo ago
  > - Jon Richelieu-Booth for posting a picture of himself with a gun in the US A quick search suggests that the photo with the gun wasn't the sole cause of the arrest, given there were stalking allegations "involving serious alarm or distress" from someone he had a conflict with, where the gun was one part of what caused the complainint to (claim to) feel threatened. Police may well have overreacted due to the gun post, but your framing leaves out rather relevant details. > - Jordan Parlour for Facebook posts that were deemed ‘hateful.’ Appears to have incited violence by advocating an attack on a hotel, something he pleaded guilty to. > - Bernadette Spofforth for a post with a “mild inaccuracy” Was arrested for posting a fake name for an attacker, but released and faced no further action. Calling potentially putting a target on the back of someone innocent by connecting them to a violent crime a "mild inaccuracy" is at best wildly misleading. > Maxie Allen and Rosalind Levine These people did get a wrongful arrest payout, but the claim was most certainly not just raising concerns in a private parent's WhatsApp group. The claims including harassment, and causing a nuisance on the school premises. The claim was still wrong, and the payout reflects that the police should not have been so quick to believe the allegations before making an arrest. But your claim is still hyperbole. > - Lucy Connolly, for a post calling for mass deportation and to set fire to hotels housing immigrants At least in this one you admitted the arrest was over incitement to violence. > - Norbert Gyurcsik, for having “extreme right wing music” No, for buying and distributing albums whose lyrics breach terrorism legislation and intended to incite racial hatred. I have plenty of issues with UK terror legislation, which I believe is being abused to shut down legitimate speech at times, but framing this the way you did is again wildly misleading and hyperbolic. But even if none of your claims were wildly misleading, none of them support your initial claim: > You are allowed to say it. Unlike UK, you won’t be arrested. But you won’t be allowed in. ... about a comment referring to criticism of the government. None of the cases above were relevant to that. Most of them are relating to classes of speech that are not protected in the US either.

embedding-shape 10mo ago

> Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? Family, work, others in the group who enjoy it, the level of enjoyment might still be above the level of frustration, wanting to help, emergencies, etc. I could think of many reasons one would want to go to a country even though you disagree with ~50% the population + current leaders. I've been in North Korea as an example, but I'd never claim to support the ideas and politics of their leader(s).

dogemaster2028 10mo ago
If I was speaking badly about you in social media, I would understand it if you don’t want me at your house.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  Sure, be one-sided if that's how you want to live you life. The rest of us will continue with nuance, and talk to people we disagree about, and favor freedom of expression above conformity. But again, you do you, I'm not asking you to change your opinion, just understand that many value other values.
- stfp 10mo ago
  Criticizing fascists isn’t “speaking badly” of the US or of american people. A vast majority of people aren’t happy about what’s going on.
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    > A vast majority of people aren’t happy about what’s going on. What makes you say that? Granted, I'm just an outside observer trying to see what's going on, but since the majority isn't protesting as far as I can tell, it doesn't seem like the majority doesn't care too much currently. Probably most people are in a dire enough situation that they cannot afford to protest, and are busy enough trying to figure out how to re-organize their living situation.

vidarh 10mo ago

I live in the UK and have said worse than that about UK governments under full name with no negative effects. The idea you'll be arrested for mere criticism of the government in the UK is utter nonsense.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
chrisjj 10mo ago
> have said worse than that about UK governments under full name with no negative effects. ... that you know of.
- vidarh 10mo ago
  This is hysterical. What actions is it you imagine the UK government would have taken to disadvantage me in secret because of what I've said about them that have been so inconsequential that I haven't noticed them?
  - chrisjj 10mo ago
    I'd guess you'd find out if you applied for a job with that govt.

tonyedgecombe 10mo ago

There are plenty of things to like about America if you put aside the politics. Personally I wouldn’t bother though. We were considering a trip to Florida next year but decided on France instead due to the widespread xenophobia.

rayiner 10mo ago
[flagged]
- tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
  You know what I meant.
  - rayiner 10mo ago
    I genuinely don’t. The French are famously xenophobic. Even Americans who are xenophobic in principle are not so in practice (which is why the so-called American “far right” is full of immigrants, and why anti-immigration Trump won a narrow majority of naturalized citizens in 2024). Meanwhile, the French are not xenophobic in principle but are very much so in practice.

notrealyme123 10mo ago

"Freedom of speech" i can really feel how free it is over there. Freedom to not let people in with other opinions, and freedom to force your opinion onto other countries. Really great.

DaSHacka 10mo ago
> Freedom to not let people in with other opinions Yeah, that's more or less what it means to have a border. > and freedom to force your opinion onto other countries. Really great. They are free to reject it, as we have theirs. You should be happy USAID was shut down.
- notrealyme123 10mo ago
  Crazy how china became the good guys here. Well played.
  - DaSHacka 10mo ago
    Yeah, turns out the government taking a strong-arm approach to managing private industry and enforcing cultural cohesion is not necessarily a bad thing. Half things people criticize the current administration for enforcing wouldn't fly in China either (and more), but the real and final blackpill is we really should be copying them in more ways than one. And we don't even have things like hidden police officers stalking influencers that conveniently drop by to check on them when they show something problematic on stream. (See: Hasan's recent trip to China, where officers surrounded him to check his phone within 30 seconds of him showing a Xi Jinping meme to his stream)

daveoc64 10mo ago

>Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? There's a difference between saying that you disagree with the way that a country is being run, and wanting to be violent or pursue criminal activity against that country or its people. What you're missing is that the former should be legal in any democracy (and is in the UK), and the latter shouldn't be legal anywhere (and isn't in the UK). You're claiming the UK lacks "freedom of speech" because it doesn't allow people to incite violence online, while saying the USA has free speech, despite it seemingly rejecting visitors for legal political speech. I know which side of the pond I'd rather be on.

cess11 10mo ago
'You're claiming the UK lacks "freedom of speech" because it doesn't allow people to incite violence online, while saying the USA has free speech, despite it seemingly rejecting visitors for legal political speech.' Voicing support for the group Palestine Action has been met with quite harsh responses in the UK, even though that group is arguably non-violent in that its criminal actions are directed towards property with the aim of slowing actual violence. There are other similar developments in UK state policy.
- hermitcrab 10mo ago
  >Voicing support for the group Palestine Action has been met with quite harsh responses in the UK, even though that group is arguably non-violent That was my opinion. However one of them was alleged at a recent trial to have hit and injured a policewoman with a sledgehammer.
  - cess11 10mo ago
    Video from the incident: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-obhMBSWi4c https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-obhMBSWi4c BBC reporting: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1dzq41n4l9o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1dzq41n4l9o The accused person claims to have panicked due to how the police were interfering. If I understand the article correctly the cop was off work for three months due to the injury.

scarecrowbob 10mo ago

Hell, I -live- here and they wouldn't let me in. I like plenty of folks in, for instance, Texas. I still think the government there is illegitimate in foundation and criminal in action.

morkalork 10mo ago

>Besides, why would you want to come if you don’t like it here? Good ol "if you don't love it, leave it" argument. Nothing beats that!

dogemaster2028 10mo ago
[dead]