3 ms·

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value". All value is perception and subjective. Complicated arguments may enhance perceived value in others but keep in min

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value". All value is perception and subjective. Complicated arguments may enhance perceived value in others but keep in mind the subjective nature. Once confidence collapses, "intrinsic value" flees out the door.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Yes. Gold has no intrinsic value, but humans have a tendency to assign it a value, hence it is treated as if it has one.
- tomkinstinch 14y ago
  Gold does have value: as an industrial commodity for coating electrical contacts and for IC wire bonding, among other uses. Its elemental characteristics are unique. This value is probably much lower than its present market value though.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    It only has value for people who value the results of those applications. It's still not an intrinsic value, only subjective.
    - tomkinstinch 14y ago
      Fair enough.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - Codhisattva 14y ago
      With that in mind, I tend to think that the only items that come closest to having intrinsic value are food and potable water.
      - oleganza 14y ago
        Consider marginal utility. 100th glass of water is probably useless for you. Also, in some situations a person may value something higher than a glass of water, even if he's thirsty.
robertskmiles 14y ago
This is true. The easiest way to make this clear to someone is to ask them to define 'value', and note that they can't do so without either a) talking in terms of people and their subjective beliefs or b) relying on words that are just synonyms for 'value'.
- erikpukinskis 14y ago
  You can avoid talking about people's subjective beliefs about good or services, and instead talk about their subjective beliefs about their lives. You can then measure the curve of subjective satisfaction with their lives and value can be defined as "the impact of a good or service on the satisfaction curve of a recipient's life". Tying value to the subjective experience of the outcomes is qualitatively different than tying value to subjective beliefs about the goods or services. For example, someone might buy a million dollar McMansion because they subjectively believe it's valuable to them, and then discover that they're miserable in it because it's horribly designed, poorly constructed, and expensive to maintain. That's fundamentally different from someone who buys a house that is cheap to heat and cool, makes their everyday tasks easier, and causes the release of pleasure chemicals in a sustainable and helpful way. The latter has intrinsic value in a way the former doesn't. Edit: You can also define value as the ability for a good to increase your overall wealth. So, some goods have a cost, and do nothing to my net worth (lottery ticket). But some, if you look at the longer term, have a cost, but also add to my net worth (buying a soy milk maker). If you put a dollar value on your experiences, this can cover everything.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Yes. Gold has no intrinsic value, but humans have a tendency to assign it a value, hence it is treated as if it has one.

tomkinstinch 14y ago
Gold does have value: as an industrial commodity for coating electrical contacts and for IC wire bonding, among other uses. Its elemental characteristics are unique. This value is probably much lower than its present market value though.
- icebraining 14y ago
  It only has value for people who value the results of those applications. It's still not an intrinsic value, only subjective.
  - tomkinstinch 14y ago
    Fair enough.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - Codhisattva 14y ago
    With that in mind, I tend to think that the only items that come closest to having intrinsic value are food and potable water.
    - oleganza 14y ago
      Consider marginal utility. 100th glass of water is probably useless for you. Also, in some situations a person may value something higher than a glass of water, even if he's thirsty.

robertskmiles 14y ago

This is true. The easiest way to make this clear to someone is to ask them to define 'value', and note that they can't do so without either a) talking in terms of people and their subjective beliefs or b) relying on words that are just synonyms for 'value'.

erikpukinskis 14y ago
You can avoid talking about people's subjective beliefs about good or services, and instead talk about their subjective beliefs about their lives. You can then measure the curve of subjective satisfaction with their lives and value can be defined as "the impact of a good or service on the satisfaction curve of a recipient's life". Tying value to the subjective experience of the outcomes is qualitatively different than tying value to subjective beliefs about the goods or services. For example, someone might buy a million dollar McMansion because they subjectively believe it's valuable to them, and then discover that they're miserable in it because it's horribly designed, poorly constructed, and expensive to maintain. That's fundamentally different from someone who buys a house that is cheap to heat and cool, makes their everyday tasks easier, and causes the release of pleasure chemicals in a sustainable and helpful way. The latter has intrinsic value in a way the former doesn't. Edit: You can also define value as the ability for a good to increase your overall wealth. So, some goods have a cost, and do nothing to my net worth (lottery ticket). But some, if you look at the longer term, have a cost, but also add to my net worth (buying a soy milk maker). If you put a dollar value on your experiences, this can cover everything.