3 ms·

The desired result is coming to a documented agreement on an interaction, not some exercise in argument that has to happen between humans. I find having an LLM

The desired result is coming to a documented agreement on an interaction, not some exercise in argument that has to happen between humans. I find having an LLM create tickets for itself to implement to be an effective tool that I rarely have to provide feedback for at all. This seems like greybeards complaining that people who don't write assembly by hand.

Yeask 11mo ago
Who has ever complained that kids don't write assembly by hand? Stop being outraged for things that are only real on your mind.
- colechristensen 11mo ago
  Speaking of things that are only real in your mind... Am I outraged? And yes, there absolutely was a vocal group of a certain type of programmer complaining about high level languages like C and their risks and inefficiency and lack of control insisting that real programmers wrote code in assembly. It's hard to find references because google sucks these days and I'm not really willing to put in the effort.
  - Yeask 11mo ago
    You made it up, that is why you can't find it.
    - remexre 11mo ago
      How's [0] or [1] for historical sources? It's not surprising that Google doesn't turn these up, the golden era of this complaining was pre-WWW. [0]: https://www.ee.torontomu.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html https://www.ee.torontomu.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html [1]: https://melsloop.com/ https://melsloop.com/
      - Yeask 11mo ago
        Have you not noticed that the story you reference is so well know because... literally every single developer thinks people like Mel are crazy? Mel or Terry Adams are the exception to the rule... Having that image of greybeards only come if you have never worked with one in real life, sorry you are biased.
        kbelder 11mo ago
        What? Mel is regarded as deserving massive respect, not as crazy. If a developer thinks Mel is nuts, they are coming from a perspective I don't understand. And yes, the shift to higher level languages like C, FORTRAN, etc., was regarded by some as pandering to the new generation that didn't want to actually learn programming. With some truth, in my opinion. I think higher level languages bring huge benefits, so I'm not bemoaning their existence. But it still weirds me out when there's a professional developer that doesn't have at least a cursory knowledge of assembly. AI programming assistance (which I'm sure will be very different than today's 'vibe coding') does seem like a similar state change. I certainly don't object to it in principle, it will probably be a large productivity improvement. But I'm sure that with it, there will be the loss of fundamental knowledge for some people. Like digital artists who never learn the properties of real paint.
    - llbbdd 11mo ago
      https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/

Yeask 11mo ago

Who has ever complained that kids don't write assembly by hand? Stop being outraged for things that are only real on your mind.

colechristensen 11mo ago
Speaking of things that are only real in your mind... Am I outraged? And yes, there absolutely was a vocal group of a certain type of programmer complaining about high level languages like C and their risks and inefficiency and lack of control insisting that real programmers wrote code in assembly. It's hard to find references because google sucks these days and I'm not really willing to put in the effort.
- Yeask 11mo ago
  You made it up, that is why you can't find it.
  - remexre 11mo ago
    How's [0] or [1] for historical sources? It's not surprising that Google doesn't turn these up, the golden era of this complaining was pre-WWW. [0]: https://www.ee.torontomu.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html https://www.ee.torontomu.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html [1]: https://melsloop.com/ https://melsloop.com/
    - Yeask 11mo ago
      Have you not noticed that the story you reference is so well know because... literally every single developer thinks people like Mel are crazy? Mel or Terry Adams are the exception to the rule... Having that image of greybeards only come if you have never worked with one in real life, sorry you are biased.
      - kbelder 11mo ago
        What? Mel is regarded as deserving massive respect, not as crazy. If a developer thinks Mel is nuts, they are coming from a perspective I don't understand. And yes, the shift to higher level languages like C, FORTRAN, etc., was regarded by some as pandering to the new generation that didn't want to actually learn programming. With some truth, in my opinion. I think higher level languages bring huge benefits, so I'm not bemoaning their existence. But it still weirds me out when there's a professional developer that doesn't have at least a cursory knowledge of assembly. AI programming assistance (which I'm sure will be very different than today's 'vibe coding') does seem like a similar state change. I certainly don't object to it in principle, it will probably be a large productivity improvement. But I'm sure that with it, there will be the loss of fundamental knowledge for some people. Like digital artists who never learn the properties of real paint.
  - llbbdd 11mo ago
    https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/