3 ms·

It's not what people mean when they say GC though, especially in reference to games, where you care about your peak frame time more than about your average fram

It's not what people mean when they say GC though, especially in reference to games, where you care about your peak frame time more than about your average frame time.

tracker1 11mo ago
You should watch some of the more recent Gamers Nexus videos... the average frame pacing counts for a lot, and they're making a concerted effort to show this, as it does represent the level of "jank" in games very well.
- furyofantares 11mo ago
  Got a link? I can't work out which ones you're referring to.
  - starkparker 11mo ago
    most recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDnXe6N8h_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDnXe6N8h_c on why FPS is flawed specifically for GPU benchmarking most specifically, an ongoing attempt to understand and debunk frame generation (DLSS, etc.) as a performance gain due to introducing latency despite high FPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1FHR9fkJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1FHR9fkJk, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvfIbRIb3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvfIbRIb3U More broadly than frame pacing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-wZ_KGcsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-wZ_KGcsg is a recent example of one of _many_ interviews going back years on why both frame times and frame rates are all flawed for explaining why some games feel smoother/lag more than others (there are GN videos dating back to 2016 on the subject)
munificent 11mo ago
Reference counting can also have very bursty performance. Consider what happens when you decrement the last reference to an object which is the sole remaining reference to an entire large tree of other objects. This will trigger a whole cascade of subsequent decrements and deallocations, which can be arbitrarily large. Of course, you might say, "Well, sure, but your reference counting implementation doesn't need to eagerly deallocate on dereference." That's true! You can write a ref counter that defers some of those deallocations or amortizes them across multiple operations. And when you do that, now you really do have a garbage collector. See: https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2008-415/reading/bacon-garbage.pdf https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2008-415/reading/bacon-g...
pjmlp 11mo ago
People should learn their subjects properly, not street knowledge.

It's not what people mean when they say GC though, especially in reference to games, where you care about your peak frame time more than about your average frame time.

tracker1 11mo ago

You should watch some of the more recent Gamers Nexus videos... the average frame pacing counts for a lot, and they're making a concerted effort to show this, as it does represent the level of "jank" in games very well.

furyofantares 11mo ago
Got a link? I can't work out which ones you're referring to.
- starkparker 11mo ago
  most recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDnXe6N8h_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDnXe6N8h_c on why FPS is flawed specifically for GPU benchmarking most specifically, an ongoing attempt to understand and debunk frame generation (DLSS, etc.) as a performance gain due to introducing latency despite high FPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1FHR9fkJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh1FHR9fkJk, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvfIbRIb3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvfIbRIb3U More broadly than frame pacing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-wZ_KGcsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-wZ_KGcsg is a recent example of one of _many_ interviews going back years on why both frame times and frame rates are all flawed for explaining why some games feel smoother/lag more than others (there are GN videos dating back to 2016 on the subject)

munificent 11mo ago

Reference counting can also have very bursty performance. Consider what happens when you decrement the last reference to an object which is the sole remaining reference to an entire large tree of other objects. This will trigger a whole cascade of subsequent decrements and deallocations, which can be arbitrarily large. Of course, you might say, "Well, sure, but your reference counting implementation doesn't need to eagerly deallocate on dereference." That's true! You can write a ref counter that defers some of those deallocations or amortizes them across multiple operations. And when you do that, now you really do have a garbage collector. See: https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2008-415/reading/bacon-garbage.pdf https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2008-415/reading/bacon-g...

pjmlp 11mo ago

People should learn their subjects properly, not street knowledge.