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The idea that just because Europe still has some profitable businesses left, there is no need to compete for global technological leadership is so absurd that e

The idea that just because Europe still has some profitable businesses left, there is no need to compete for global technological leadership is so absurd that even putting it into words is hard. E.g. Germany, the largest EU economy, is very dependent on their car export industry. Guess which industry isn't too hot right now? Do you think you salary will survive the EU losing their export markets? Mine surely will not.

Nextgrid 10mo ago
> compete for global technological leadership Yet every time the EU tries to enforce regulations so that technological competition becomes actually possible everyone is mad about it.
- pb7 10mo ago
  How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete? How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU? I'll give you a hint, it's not because of big bad Google.
  - Nextgrid 10mo ago
    > only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete [emphasis mine] Tell me another country that competes with the US on monopolistic tech platforms? The only one I know of is China, and that's because their GFW and regulations essentially prevented US platforms from taking hold to begin with, and their stronghold on tech manufacturing means they actually have teeth when it comes to securing concessions from Western techbros (where as the EU couldn't even be bothered to enforce the GDPR).
  - fullofideas 10mo ago
    While I agree with the sentiment, it is not true that only EU takes a “nationalistic” stance and safeguards its interests. US is famously doing it with tariffs..to bring back manufacturing, and I also remember hearing “America first”. Doesn’t make what EU is doing right, just that everyone is stifling outside competition in some form.
  - mhitza 10mo ago
    > How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU? Access to VCs and funding is easier in the US. Heck, even if you try to build your own startup, with your own funds, when you're out there looking for investments soon enough being "delaware incorporated" will become a requirement.
    - pb7 10mo ago
      Why do you think there is more funding in the US?
      - mhitza 10mo ago
        I don't know the legislation and contract law pertains to funding, and why EU companies need to move to the US to get investor funds (and can't be funded internationally while retaining EU status). What I can tell you from my experience in seeking out venture/angel/seed funding opportunities in the EU is that many (most) that turn up on search results don't have a "pitch us" form and more of a "we'll find you if we want to fund you". There are also incubators, a la YCombinator, that provide only mentorship and no funding (ie. I would need to quit my job and sustain myself to build a startup).
  - re-thc 10mo ago
    > How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete? It's not required to compete. It's just their style and old fashioned. A 1 point hitting kids was the way to go. We all know how that went. The world has changed. Those kingdom eras no longer exist. The EU should bring out real substance.
- constantcrying 10mo ago
  Competition by whom? The entire EU software industry is completely pathetic. The EU has been regulating the US tech for over a decade. In that time the EU has only fallen further behind. Meanwhile China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US, while the EU is loosing the one large industry which it has left, manufacturing, to China. This whole thing is pathetic. Of the goal of the EC ever was the creation of a competitive EU software industry it was a total failure and it was bound to be a total failure. Because what they did were idiotic regulations. Everything the regulations have accomplished is that trying to compete in the EU puts such an enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed.
  - Nextgrid 10mo ago
    > China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US China is in this position because of regulations (and technological enforcement of them like GFW), which prevented US tech from taking any significant foothold and left the market available for local competition. > enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed Can you tell me which business can't work in the EU? Selling software is legal. Operating a SaaS is legal. Hell, even industrial-scale spyware is legal, as long as you become big quickly enough so that enforcing the GDPR against you becomes counterproductive. The only thing I see that can't be done is industrial-scale corporation-on-consumer fraud, but I don't think we're losing much because of that.
    - constantcrying 10mo ago
      >China is in this position because of regulations Then the regulations of the EC just fucking sucked and destroyed all chances of the EU ever having a competitive software industry.
      - Nextgrid 10mo ago
        The regulations were good, it's just that enforcement was and remains dysfunctional and basically non-existent. Those business-ending GDPR fines HN loves fear-mongering about never materialized. Similarly with the DMA - Apple is still being allowed to stall and wage bureaucratic warfare to not comply. In contrast, when in China people were found to be using AirDrop's "open to everyone" feature to share content the CCP deemed inappropriate, we quickly got a change where AirDrop would only stay open to everyone for 10 mins before reverting back to "contacts only". If the EU had the same balls they would give Apple an ultimatum and you'd get alternate browser engines, app stores, and the right to "sideload" overnight.
pjmlp 10mo ago
There is more to the economy than technology bros.
- constantcrying 10mo ago
  I am not a "tech bro" at all. Read the post, my salary is part of European manufacturing.
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    So what? There is more to the economy than AI startups with SV money.
    - constantcrying 10mo ago
      If the manufacturing economy of Europe looses out to China, which currently seems very likely, I, and millions of other people, will be out of a job, with no possible chance of ever earning anything close to a reasonable wage. Who cares about AI. The EU is loosing on everything.

Nextgrid 10mo ago

> compete for global technological leadership Yet every time the EU tries to enforce regulations so that technological competition becomes actually possible everyone is mad about it.

pb7 10mo ago
How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete? How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU? I'll give you a hint, it's not because of big bad Google.
- Nextgrid 10mo ago
  > only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete [emphasis mine] Tell me another country that competes with the US on monopolistic tech platforms? The only one I know of is China, and that's because their GFW and regulations essentially prevented US platforms from taking hold to begin with, and their stronghold on tech manufacturing means they actually have teeth when it comes to securing concessions from Western techbros (where as the EU couldn't even be bothered to enforce the GDPR).
- fullofideas 10mo ago
  While I agree with the sentiment, it is not true that only EU takes a “nationalistic” stance and safeguards its interests. US is famously doing it with tariffs..to bring back manufacturing, and I also remember hearing “America first”. Doesn’t make what EU is doing right, just that everyone is stifling outside competition in some form.
- mhitza 10mo ago
  > How come OpenAI or Anthropic or Cursor didn't come out of the EU? Access to VCs and funding is easier in the US. Heck, even if you try to build your own startup, with your own funds, when you're out there looking for investments soon enough being "delaware incorporated" will become a requirement.
  - pb7 10mo ago
    Why do you think there is more funding in the US?
    - mhitza 10mo ago
      I don't know the legislation and contract law pertains to funding, and why EU companies need to move to the US to get investor funds (and can't be funded internationally while retaining EU status). What I can tell you from my experience in seeking out venture/angel/seed funding opportunities in the EU is that many (most) that turn up on search results don't have a "pitch us" form and more of a "we'll find you if we want to fund you". There are also incubators, a la YCombinator, that provide only mentorship and no funding (ie. I would need to quit my job and sustain myself to build a startup).
- re-thc 10mo ago
  > How come only the EU needs to stifle existing companies to be able to have a chance to compete? It's not required to compete. It's just their style and old fashioned. A 1 point hitting kids was the way to go. We all know how that went. The world has changed. Those kingdom eras no longer exist. The EU should bring out real substance.
constantcrying 10mo ago
Competition by whom? The entire EU software industry is completely pathetic. The EU has been regulating the US tech for over a decade. In that time the EU has only fallen further behind. Meanwhile China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US, while the EU is loosing the one large industry which it has left, manufacturing, to China. This whole thing is pathetic. Of the goal of the EC ever was the creation of a competitive EU software industry it was a total failure and it was bound to be a total failure. Because what they did were idiotic regulations. Everything the regulations have accomplished is that trying to compete in the EU puts such an enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed.
- Nextgrid 10mo ago
  > China has been steadily moving towards being an actual competitor to the US China is in this position because of regulations (and technological enforcement of them like GFW), which prevented US tech from taking any significant foothold and left the market available for local competition. > enormous legal burden on any prospective competitor that failure is guaranteed Can you tell me which business can't work in the EU? Selling software is legal. Operating a SaaS is legal. Hell, even industrial-scale spyware is legal, as long as you become big quickly enough so that enforcing the GDPR against you becomes counterproductive. The only thing I see that can't be done is industrial-scale corporation-on-consumer fraud, but I don't think we're losing much because of that.
  - constantcrying 10mo ago
    >China is in this position because of regulations Then the regulations of the EC just fucking sucked and destroyed all chances of the EU ever having a competitive software industry.
    - Nextgrid 10mo ago
      The regulations were good, it's just that enforcement was and remains dysfunctional and basically non-existent. Those business-ending GDPR fines HN loves fear-mongering about never materialized. Similarly with the DMA - Apple is still being allowed to stall and wage bureaucratic warfare to not comply. In contrast, when in China people were found to be using AirDrop's "open to everyone" feature to share content the CCP deemed inappropriate, we quickly got a change where AirDrop would only stay open to everyone for 10 mins before reverting back to "contacts only". If the EU had the same balls they would give Apple an ultimatum and you'd get alternate browser engines, app stores, and the right to "sideload" overnight.

pjmlp 10mo ago

There is more to the economy than technology bros.

constantcrying 10mo ago
I am not a "tech bro" at all. Read the post, my salary is part of European manufacturing.
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  So what? There is more to the economy than AI startups with SV money.
  - constantcrying 10mo ago
    If the manufacturing economy of Europe looses out to China, which currently seems very likely, I, and millions of other people, will be out of a job, with no possible chance of ever earning anything close to a reasonable wage. Who cares about AI. The EU is loosing on everything.