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"Programmers who can program at all - as in, print out a binary tree correctly" Strikingly succinct and useful benchmark, just sort of thrown in there like it

"Programmers who can program at all - as in, print out a binary tree correctly" Strikingly succinct and useful benchmark, just sort of thrown in there like it was jam on toast. There are some tidbits of wisdom in this article, but overall it boils down to a life that has lost all meaning and passion and has succumbed to the lowest common denominator: money. True, maybe, but sad, really.

_yosefk 14y ago
I found much "meaning and passion" in programming after getting into it for the money. Conversely, I know a few people who started programming as kids, and who spent some time fighting depression, unable to feel the same passion as in their early years while doing real-world, bill-paying stuff. Typically, they try a few other things, and then get over it, realizing how lucky they are, sitting on the gold mine that is programming ability. A life full of "meaning and passion" is typically sustained through money. It's much easier to find meaning and passion given money than it is to find money given meaning and passion. If nobody is willing to pay for your program, maybe it's not worth the passion; if they pay, maybe it is.
dpark 14y ago
Many people spend years or decades moving from job to job and from career to career looking for happiness. Most of them don't find it until they learn that your job just isn't what makes you happy. "Do something you love" is a myth. Jobs are jobs because they involve a lot of crap people don't want to do. No one's going to find personal meaning by writing specs, or by cutting a beautiful design down to an ugly minimum to fit into time constraints, or by maintaining some poorly-written internal tool. But these are all things programmers will do, at some of the best jobs in the industry. Every job has a large chunk of "this sucks" work. If it's kept to a minimum, you're doing far better than most people.
- Karunamon 14y ago
  >"Do something you love" is a myth. As someone who is currently working his dream job, this statement couldn't be further from the truth.
  - dpark 14y ago
    A dream job is still a job. There are still parts that are tedious, and frustrating (if you're not encountering anything frustrating, you're not doing anything important), and annoying. That's why they pay you. And that's why "do what you love" is a myth. You can't always do what you love. Sometimes you have to do things you do not love, and just be happy that part of the time you get to do what you enjoy. Far too many people chase a "dream job" not understanding that every job will have parts they simply will not love. And instead of accepting that this is reality, they fixate on the problems and fall prey to "the grass is greener" thinking. I'm sure Elon Musk loves his job (indeed he has many people's "dream job"), but I bet 90% of it is tedious bullshit.
    - pacala 14y ago
      Life. There are still parts that are tedious, and frustrating (if you're not encountering anything frustrating, you're not doing anything important), and annoying.
    - georgemcbay 14y ago
      Your argument is so weird to me. Not because I think you're wrong about every job having a bunch of tasks that are tedious and annoying, but because the same thing is true of every single thing we do in life. Jobs aren't unique in this manner, the same thing is true of any creative hobby, relationships, etc. "Far too many people chase a "dream job" not understanding that every job will have parts they simply will not love." I don't think that is true, I think most people realize any jobs just like anything at all in life, won't be 100% fun stuff. It is just such an obvious common sense thing that they don't bother talking about it.
      - dpark 14y ago
        > I don't think that is true, I think most people realize any jobs just like anything at all in life, won't be 100% fun stuff. It is just such an obvious common sense thing that they don't bother talking about it. I disagree. People who are happy with their jobs realize this. People who switch aimlessly between jobs and careers definitely do not seem to realize it. They get fed up with dealing with people, or a crappy co-worker, or whatever else they don't like about their current job and leave, assuming that somewhere is a job that doesn't have to deal shitty thing "X", not admitting that most jobs will have shitty thing "X", and the ones that don't will have shitty thing "Y" instead. On top of this, we get sentiments like the one from calinet6, telling people that if they simply accept that they need to work for a living, then their lives must sad. "Oh, you work as a programmer for money; how sad for you." Yes, how sad that someone can make a good living in a good industry. How sad instead that so many people look for their life's meaning at work and never find it.
jamesaguilar 14y ago
TIL your life is wasted if your treat your job as a job.
- prodigal_erik 14y ago
  If you spend 40 of your 112 waking hours per week doing something other than what you're passionate about, you're wasting at least a third of your life. Unfortunately we've created an economy that compels most people to do this.

_yosefk 14y ago

I found much "meaning and passion" in programming after getting into it for the money. Conversely, I know a few people who started programming as kids, and who spent some time fighting depression, unable to feel the same passion as in their early years while doing real-world, bill-paying stuff. Typically, they try a few other things, and then get over it, realizing how lucky they are, sitting on the gold mine that is programming ability. A life full of "meaning and passion" is typically sustained through money. It's much easier to find meaning and passion given money than it is to find money given meaning and passion. If nobody is willing to pay for your program, maybe it's not worth the passion; if they pay, maybe it is.

dpark 14y ago

Many people spend years or decades moving from job to job and from career to career looking for happiness. Most of them don't find it until they learn that your job just isn't what makes you happy. "Do something you love" is a myth. Jobs are jobs because they involve a lot of crap people don't want to do. No one's going to find personal meaning by writing specs, or by cutting a beautiful design down to an ugly minimum to fit into time constraints, or by maintaining some poorly-written internal tool. But these are all things programmers will do, at some of the best jobs in the industry. Every job has a large chunk of "this sucks" work. If it's kept to a minimum, you're doing far better than most people.

Karunamon 14y ago
>"Do something you love" is a myth. As someone who is currently working his dream job, this statement couldn't be further from the truth.
- dpark 14y ago
  A dream job is still a job. There are still parts that are tedious, and frustrating (if you're not encountering anything frustrating, you're not doing anything important), and annoying. That's why they pay you. And that's why "do what you love" is a myth. You can't always do what you love. Sometimes you have to do things you do not love, and just be happy that part of the time you get to do what you enjoy. Far too many people chase a "dream job" not understanding that every job will have parts they simply will not love. And instead of accepting that this is reality, they fixate on the problems and fall prey to "the grass is greener" thinking. I'm sure Elon Musk loves his job (indeed he has many people's "dream job"), but I bet 90% of it is tedious bullshit.
  - pacala 14y ago
    Life. There are still parts that are tedious, and frustrating (if you're not encountering anything frustrating, you're not doing anything important), and annoying.
  - georgemcbay 14y ago
    Your argument is so weird to me. Not because I think you're wrong about every job having a bunch of tasks that are tedious and annoying, but because the same thing is true of every single thing we do in life. Jobs aren't unique in this manner, the same thing is true of any creative hobby, relationships, etc. "Far too many people chase a "dream job" not understanding that every job will have parts they simply will not love." I don't think that is true, I think most people realize any jobs just like anything at all in life, won't be 100% fun stuff. It is just such an obvious common sense thing that they don't bother talking about it.
    - dpark 14y ago
      > I don't think that is true, I think most people realize any jobs just like anything at all in life, won't be 100% fun stuff. It is just such an obvious common sense thing that they don't bother talking about it. I disagree. People who are happy with their jobs realize this. People who switch aimlessly between jobs and careers definitely do not seem to realize it. They get fed up with dealing with people, or a crappy co-worker, or whatever else they don't like about their current job and leave, assuming that somewhere is a job that doesn't have to deal shitty thing "X", not admitting that most jobs will have shitty thing "X", and the ones that don't will have shitty thing "Y" instead. On top of this, we get sentiments like the one from calinet6, telling people that if they simply accept that they need to work for a living, then their lives must sad. "Oh, you work as a programmer for money; how sad for you." Yes, how sad that someone can make a good living in a good industry. How sad instead that so many people look for their life's meaning at work and never find it.

jamesaguilar 14y ago

TIL your life is wasted if your treat your job as a job.

prodigal_erik 14y ago
If you spend 40 of your 112 waking hours per week doing something other than what you're passionate about, you're wasting at least a third of your life. Unfortunately we've created an economy that compels most people to do this.