4 ms·

> drug lord tactics to keep its users. What on earth are you talking about? Companies switch from MS to Google Workspace all the time. It's a huge logistical

> drug lord tactics to keep its users. What on earth are you talking about? Companies switch from MS to Google Workspace all the time. It's a huge logistical challenge, not because of anything Microsoft does, but just because they're different systems and migrating data and processes is inherently hard.

aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
> Companies switch from MS to Google Workspace all the time. To my knowledge, Google is a worse "data kraken" than Microsoft, so companies are very hesitant to switch to Google; in the companies' opinion such a switch would be a switch from "bad" to "horrific".
- crazygringo 11mo ago
  I don't know what you're basing any of that on. I've never heard of such a thing. Like, on the lists of enterprise pros and cons of migrating from MS365 to Workspace, I've never once heard of that.
  - aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
    > I don't know what you're basing any of that on. I've never heard of such a thing. Basically everybody in Germany calls Google (and other companies that spy immensely on users) a "Datenkrake" (data kraken) > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenkrake https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenkrake According to dict.cc "data kraken" is the English translation of "Datenkrake".
    - crazygringo 11mo ago
      OK, so that's a pop culture thing in Germany, that's interesting. But the idea that Google Workspace is somehow worse than Microsoft 365 doesn't seem to be supported by any evidence as far as I'm aware of, though. And if you actually look at paid Workspace terms, Google never looks at or uses your corporate data, and there are tons of internal controls over that. Obviously, tons of companies (including companies who compete with certain Google products) would otherwise never trust or use Google.
      - aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
        > OK, so that's a pop culture thing in Germany, that's interesting. I wouldn't associate Datenkrake with anyhting related to "pop culture" (in the sense I see the word "pop cultural" used by US-Americans like for currently popular celebrities, movies, songs, ...), but rather as "part of daily life"; perhaps a little bit "subcultural" and using this word sends a rather clear signal on how your stance on privacy topics is.
        crazygringo 11mo ago
        I meant it's a term expressing viewpoint that's part of popular culture in Germany, as opposed to part of academia. There's no equivalent term in American popular culture.
        aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
        > I meant it's a term expressing viewpoint that's part of popular culture in Germany, as opposed to part of academia. The word "Datenkrake" is also used in academic texts (even though I would say the word is a litle bit colloquial): > https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=datenkrake&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=date... As I wrote: I would consider this word to be "part of daily life" like "cooking pot" or "bicycle", which is why I would never have expected that the English translation of it > https://www.dict.cc/?s=Datenkrake https://www.dict.cc/?s=Datenkrake is not understood.
        crazygringo 11mo ago
        Now you know! Yeah, it definitely seems to carry a strong ideology with it, an ideology which is not present in other countries. Germany has pretty unique attitudes towards privacy. It actually sounds pretty humorous to me. Like if there was a country that called Toblerone a sugar-scarecrow, or BMW a pedestrian-serial-killer, and everyone thought that was normal? It kind of makes it hard to take quite seriously!
- diegolas 11mo ago
  so what is the choice? build an in-house office suite (and all the extra functionality)? use a sub-par alternative that doesn't even cover all the features?
b3lvedere 11mo ago
https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-white-house-offer-cybersecurity-biden-nadella https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-white-house-off...
- crazygringo 11mo ago
  OK, now I understand what you're saying. You used the wrong metaphor though... those are drug dealer tactics. Drug lord tactics are about how to e.g. murder the leaders of a rival drug gang to gain market share, or diversify supply routes and methods in case the feds figure out one of them. So you can understand my confusion about what you were trying to say about Microsoft... :P
  - b3lvedere 11mo ago
    I apologize for the confusion and stand corrected

aleph_minus_one 11mo ago

> Companies switch from MS to Google Workspace all the time. To my knowledge, Google is a worse "data kraken" than Microsoft, so companies are very hesitant to switch to Google; in the companies' opinion such a switch would be a switch from "bad" to "horrific".

crazygringo 11mo ago
I don't know what you're basing any of that on. I've never heard of such a thing. Like, on the lists of enterprise pros and cons of migrating from MS365 to Workspace, I've never once heard of that.
- aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
  > I don't know what you're basing any of that on. I've never heard of such a thing. Basically everybody in Germany calls Google (and other companies that spy immensely on users) a "Datenkrake" (data kraken) > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenkrake https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenkrake According to dict.cc "data kraken" is the English translation of "Datenkrake".
  - crazygringo 11mo ago
    OK, so that's a pop culture thing in Germany, that's interesting. But the idea that Google Workspace is somehow worse than Microsoft 365 doesn't seem to be supported by any evidence as far as I'm aware of, though. And if you actually look at paid Workspace terms, Google never looks at or uses your corporate data, and there are tons of internal controls over that. Obviously, tons of companies (including companies who compete with certain Google products) would otherwise never trust or use Google.
    - aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
      > OK, so that's a pop culture thing in Germany, that's interesting. I wouldn't associate Datenkrake with anyhting related to "pop culture" (in the sense I see the word "pop cultural" used by US-Americans like for currently popular celebrities, movies, songs, ...), but rather as "part of daily life"; perhaps a little bit "subcultural" and using this word sends a rather clear signal on how your stance on privacy topics is.
      - crazygringo 11mo ago
        I meant it's a term expressing viewpoint that's part of popular culture in Germany, as opposed to part of academia. There's no equivalent term in American popular culture.
        aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
        > I meant it's a term expressing viewpoint that's part of popular culture in Germany, as opposed to part of academia. The word "Datenkrake" is also used in academic texts (even though I would say the word is a litle bit colloquial): > https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=datenkrake&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=date... As I wrote: I would consider this word to be "part of daily life" like "cooking pot" or "bicycle", which is why I would never have expected that the English translation of it > https://www.dict.cc/?s=Datenkrake https://www.dict.cc/?s=Datenkrake is not understood.
        crazygringo 11mo ago
        Now you know! Yeah, it definitely seems to carry a strong ideology with it, an ideology which is not present in other countries. Germany has pretty unique attitudes towards privacy. It actually sounds pretty humorous to me. Like if there was a country that called Toblerone a sugar-scarecrow, or BMW a pedestrian-serial-killer, and everyone thought that was normal? It kind of makes it hard to take quite seriously!
diegolas 11mo ago
so what is the choice? build an in-house office suite (and all the extra functionality)? use a sub-par alternative that doesn't even cover all the features?

b3lvedere 11mo ago

https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-white-house-offer-cybersecurity-biden-nadella https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-white-house-off...

crazygringo 11mo ago
OK, now I understand what you're saying. You used the wrong metaphor though... those are drug dealer tactics. Drug lord tactics are about how to e.g. murder the leaders of a rival drug gang to gain market share, or diversify supply routes and methods in case the feds figure out one of them. So you can understand my confusion about what you were trying to say about Microsoft... :P
- b3lvedere 11mo ago
  I apologize for the confusion and stand corrected