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Is it good when number of human go up? Is bad when go down?

by andai 11mo ago

maciejzj 11mo ago
I would say that it is bad when it has large derivative (positive or negative). However, the problem is not about >number of human beings< but about making agency that existing people have obsolete.
- andai 11mo ago
  We're making slave morality obsolete. The sense of self dependent entirely on external performance. Reality is making it so that we will have very little value in that domain very soon. Because everything we do now will be done better faster cheaper by the machines. That's going to be a pretty rough transition. I think the economic aspects will be pretty straightforward by comparison to the psychological upheaval!
gcanyon 11mo ago
It's bad if it goes down by more than about 1.2% per year. That would mean zero births, present-day natural deaths. Of course zero births isn't presently realistic, and we should expect the next 10-30 years to significantly increase human lifespan. If we assume continued births at the lowest rates seen anywhere on the planet, and humans just maxing out the present human lifespan limit, then anything more than about a 0.5% decrease means someone is getting murked.
DangitBobby 11mo ago
That depends on what you think jobs and the economy are for, generally. If you think the purpose of the economy is for the economy to be good then it doesn't matter. If you think it exists to serve humanity then... You really wouldn't need to ask the question, I imagine.
- andai 11mo ago
  The number of humans doesn't exactly serve humanity though either. Both of those variables are mostly irrelevant to actual human happiness and flourishing. In fact as far as I can tell they are actively harmful, for several different reasons.
  - DangitBobby 11mo ago
    Unless you live in our current reality where we don't give the money to the people they need to flourish without their having jobs. I don't see us changing that fact any time soon.

Is it good when number of human go up? Is bad when go down?

by andai 11mo ago

Is it good when number of human go up? Is bad when go down?

I would say that it is bad when it has large derivative (positive or negative). However, the problem is not about >number of human beings< but about making agency that existing people have obsolete.

andai 11mo ago
We're making slave morality obsolete. The sense of self dependent entirely on external performance. Reality is making it so that we will have very little value in that domain very soon. Because everything we do now will be done better faster cheaper by the machines. That's going to be a pretty rough transition. I think the economic aspects will be pretty straightforward by comparison to the psychological upheaval!

gcanyon 11mo ago

It's bad if it goes down by more than about 1.2% per year. That would mean zero births, present-day natural deaths. Of course zero births isn't presently realistic, and we should expect the next 10-30 years to significantly increase human lifespan. If we assume continued births at the lowest rates seen anywhere on the planet, and humans just maxing out the present human lifespan limit, then anything more than about a 0.5% decrease means someone is getting murked.

DangitBobby 11mo ago

That depends on what you think jobs and the economy are for, generally. If you think the purpose of the economy is for the economy to be good then it doesn't matter. If you think it exists to serve humanity then... You really wouldn't need to ask the question, I imagine.

andai 11mo ago
The number of humans doesn't exactly serve humanity though either. Both of those variables are mostly irrelevant to actual human happiness and flourishing. In fact as far as I can tell they are actively harmful, for several different reasons.
- DangitBobby 11mo ago
  Unless you live in our current reality where we don't give the money to the people they need to flourish without their having jobs. I don't see us changing that fact any time soon.