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Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz
- churchill 11mo ago[dead]
- Traubenfuchs 11mo ago>45% of voters would vote for Trump again, today.
- 4gotunameagain 11mo agoWhat does the orange-utan has to do with this ? The free rein of the CIA and associated atrocities have been the same under every US president.
- noja 11mo agoWhich other president directed the rounding up of Americans and non-Americans to put them in a camp?
- linschn 11mo ago- Roosevelt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... - van buren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Cass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Cass - Wilson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans - Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp And i must forget a lot of others, but I think you get the gist. "Great again" indeed.
- drcongo 11mo agoOut of curiosity, do you know if these events get taught in history lessons in American schools? I'm by no means throwing shade here - I'm a Brit and our history lessons barely mentioned the unending list of atrocities Britain committed in the name of empire.
- salawat 11mo agoYepper. Trail of Tears, German/Japanese internment are all primary education topics. Now interestingly, I don't think Bush has made it into the history books yet, but I don't have kids, so can't verify current day education materials. What I find interesting is the bits we leave out. Like we touch on the Banana Republics, but the annex of Hawaii and how that was skulduggerously done is completely skimmed over.
- IAmBroom 11mo ago> German/Japanese internment are all primary education topics. There wasn't any German internment. White people got a pass.
- drcongo 11mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans
- TrnsltLife 11mo agoRemind me what the German equivalent of Japan's attack Pearl Harbor was on US soil.
- dragonwriter 11mo ago> There wasn't any German internment There was, in fact, but the proportion of German (and Italian, also) nationals and citizens of German (and Italian) descent interned was far lower compared to the population of such foreign nationals and citizens than was the case for Japanese nationals and citizens of Japanese descent. > White people got a pass. Relatively speaking, yes, but there still were internments, including of US citizens based on German and Italian descent. (But with more individualized review before internment or eviction from coastal areas than was true of citizens of Japanese descent.)
- acdha 11mo agoNo, it hasn’t. The CIA didn’t do this under Clinton because it’s a war crime, and Cold War Republicans prided themselves on saying we were better than e.g. the Viet Cong. The Bush cadre broke the U.S. law written just a few years before by their own party[1] by adopting techniques American forces were trained could be used against them if they were captured, not things which were previously sanctioned. Obama’s greatest moral failing was not having war crimes trials. There is a direct line between the Bush-era embrace of torture abroad and the mistreatment we’re now seeing domestically. 1. War Crimes Act of 1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996
- Traubenfuchs 11mo ago> What does the orange-utan has to do with this ? Alligator Alcatraz is a Trump original. > The free rein of the CIA and associated atrocities have been the same under every US president. You are absolutely right, but not always is this kind of stuff that directly supported by the president.
- conartist6 11mo ago[flagged]
- tux3 11mo agoThey are humans. Humans can commit atrocities. Don't let anger bring you down into that mindset.
- conartist6 11mo agoThey clearly think of anyone they don't like as not human. I am only indulging in their crime. They do what evil people would do.
- salviati 11mo agoThinking that the word is divided into evil and non evil people is not very useful.
- conartist6 11mo agoNo, that's true, and I don't actually think that the world is divided into good and evil. Nor do I think anyone doing this really has anything to fear from the justice system. But to the degree you can take a normal person and twist them into something horribly unfit for civil society, having them do torture is the way. It's the express lane to not seeing others as human, not even when they're in front of you, being tortured by you.
- SirFatty 11mo agoDividing things into useful/not useful isn't very useful.
- nirui 11mo agoThe world has to modes: In one mode, we need people, as much as we can get, to make something bigger out of this world. In another mode, the world can no longer grow, so we divide, we conquer "the others" or be conquered. The definition of the word "evil" changes depends on which mode we are in. That's why Niccolò Machiavelli suggested that it is useful to be both loved and feared, it gives you the best chance when a challenge is facing you.
- shevy-java 11mo agoThis kind of seems to be a combined strategy. I mean this is not old; many of us may still remember Abu Ghraib and so forth. We now have a somewhat comparable situation: build up of enemies. See ICE raids and videos manhunting people. There always are people susceptible to do so (e. g. inflict pain onto others). The strange thing is how some "democracies" do that. Where is the net difference to a dictatorship? This is also blurred. You have a similar problem in Israel - again, tons of examples that can be given, but it seems as if this is a combined strategy originating from the top (of command chains). The article claims that the torture box ("confinement box") is the worst torture, but some 20 years ago we had the same with waterboarding. I see a repeat of older patterns here. I wonder what those who torture other people think.
- DyslexicAtheist 11mo ago> strange thing is how some "democracies" do that the US is not a democracy. Also, it is not a "repeat of old patterns" but continuation of things that have never been solved.
- salviati 11mo ago> the US is not a democracy. Since when? You probably think that it has been a democracy at some point. And I'm sure the US did use torture at the time you deemed it a democracy. Hence I don't get your point.
- DyslexicAtheist 11mo agoI never claimed it was a democracy, either today or in the past. I actually said the opposite.
- salviati 11mo agoI see. I thought you meant "under Trump the US is not a democracy". Which I think is a pretty common opinion. But now I understand you meant "the US has never been a democracy".
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 11mo agoThis is how people lose credibility. The articles wants to make you think the box is a 3d confinement reminiscent of the drawing. From the description it sounds like it is a 4 square foot cage that the person stands in while cuffed. Yes it’s bad. No, it’s not like the box mentioned at the CIA Black site.
- op00to 11mo agoYou get in the box and tell me it’s not torture. I’ll wait.
- fzeroracer 11mo agoI think if you ever get to the point where you're argument hinges on 'well actually it's torture but it's not THAT BAD of torture' you should really step back and analyze if your post is really worth making or not.
- TSiege 11mo agoJust because they are not literally identical does mean they are unrelated. The author points this out and it sounds horrific. > The four men interviewed by Amnesty International, as well as Florida-based organizations, told the organization about the ‘box’, described as a 2x2 foot cage-like structure located outside in the yard of “Alligator Alcatraz” where individuals are sent for punishment. Individuals are put in the ‘box’, their hands are shackled and their feet are attached to restraints on the ground. They are unable to sit down or move positions, and are forced to remain there for hours in the heat with hardly any water or protection from the sun, heat and insects. According to a man seeking safety, “People ended up in the ‘box’ just for asking the guards for anything. I saw a guy who was put in it for an entire day.” > A "2x2 cage-like structure… [an] extremely small space that prevents sitting, lying or changing position" has dimensions startlingly reminiscent of those the Senate documented in the black sites. The major difference is that in Florida, the Small Box is exposed to the elements and constructed as a barred cage, whereas in Catseye, it was a closed structure inside the larger closed structure of the black site. And in Florida, the box is used as punishment. According to one of the Alligator Alcatraz survivors in the Amnesty report, people were put into the box simply for alerting the guards to someone's need for medication. "They were taken to 'the box' and punished for trying to help me," the person told Amnesty
- tehwebguy 11mo agoICE flavored Nuremberg when this is over.
- belorn 11mo agoWhat is going to change, and after what event? United States use of torture has been well known, documented and made into multiple movies and TV for the last decades. Multiple different governments have not only shown zero interest to charge people over it, but they have also given the green light to continue it. No president nor any candidate has shown even the slightest interest, nor has there been any grassroots movement that gone out on the street to demand accountability.
- IAmBroom 11mo agoThat would require Axis-flavored tribunals over the US. And that isn't going to happen.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- sentrysapper 11mo agoI've been calling them the N2 trials. The evidence this administration willingly shares makes one shudder to think what they are not sharing.
- tastyface 11mo agoA thought that haunts me: a few hundred Venezuelan migrants were released from CECOT, but are there any deportees still stuck in there that we simply don’t know about? People without loved ones or a paper trail serving a hellish life sentence for a misdemeanor? If they exist, will anyone ever be able to get them out?
- 0xedd 11mo ago[dead]
- HardwareLust 11mo agoWhy is this flagged?
- op00to 11mo agoLikely because it is not related to startups, technology, and so on. Probably not the best fit for HN.
- josefritzishere 11mo agoThese people are not enemy combatants, or spies, or even foreign nationals. Uusually thery are immigrants in the process of getting citizenship. There is no argument for torturing these people. This is just psychotic cruelty.