4 ms·

> Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient Most people don't live in city centers. Because they are the most expensive pla

by ekianjo 11mo ago

> Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient Most people don't live in city centers. Because they are the most expensive places to live in.

simgt 11mo ago
You don't always need to be a city center to have this convenience, but you can't be in an area that is car centric... And usually when people compare the cost of both of these places, they only account for the cost per square meter of accommodation.
ben_w 11mo ago
You don't need to be in a city centre for small shops with bike racks. This is village with a population of a bit less than 3000, which I only know about because I have walked East-West across most of the state of Brandenburg (from Słubice in Poland to the city of Brandenburg) and this trains station was a convenient break point: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3459295,14.2800967,3a,60y,142.2h,86.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDFKO6NzBeDShx7bNWbPYuw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D3.2456239270868394%26panoid%3DDFKO6NzBeDShx7bNWbPYuw%26yaw%3D142.19715659295255!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3459295,14.2800967,3a,60y,14... Here's Aberystwyth, where I did my degree, population 13k, nearby villages boost that by about 6k, students by another 8k: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4145833,-4.0848806,3a,75y,196.65h,82.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz4BcyFNmmrPIaHRCd15qMQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D7.068462889161324%26panoid%3Dz4BcyFNmmrPIaHRCd15qMQ%26yaw%3D196.65312216877732!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4145833,-4.0848806,3a,75y,19... I grew up on the south coast of the UK. Which is certainly expensive overall, but it has cheap areas like Leigh Park which used to be entirely council houses (i.e. made for poor people and run by the local council): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leigh+Park,+Havant,+UK/@50.8663948,-0.9854767,3a,64.9y,63.29h,81.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2z7pXItUov3gHqDKYcyejw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.87214493896991%26panoid%3D2z7pXItUov3gHqDKYcyejw%26yaw%3D63.2896498599043!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x487444eec35cfa8f:0xe0ed4519e9cb4e7d!8m2!3d50.8681413!4d-0.9866197!16zL20vMDV0cGg3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leigh+Park,+Havant,+UK/@50...
- graemep 11mo ago
  One of those shows several cars in the photo and a single bike. The other two show pedestrianised areas, and all three show pedestrians without any indication of how they go there. When I to to similar areas in my town (pop approx 23k) I have drive there, park, and then walk around. I have several shops within easy walking distance and many people (including me) do walk to them, but quite a few drive. Few bikes (kids mostly) at shops although leisure cycling is VERY popular here. One of the nice things about an edge of town area with its own identity as a village is we have a lot of local stuff which is walkable and friendly.
  - ben_w 11mo ago
    > One of those shows several cars in the photo and a single bike. Yes, and? "Cars are popular" is not a surprising claim that anyone has been contradicting, so far as I can see. (Also, Aberystwyth is tiny enough to get around entirely on foot, and hilly enough that bikers have to be exceptionally fit, and yet despite this, bike racks). > The other two show pedestrianised areas, and all three show pedestrians without any indication of how they go there. The Edeka in Briesen is one of the other two, I don't see a pedestrianised area, do you mean the car park owing to the open-air market set up in it? The other one (Leigh Park) is literally in the middle of a typical UK conurbation with, as is normal in the UK, approximately universal pedestrian access. People can walk there easily from their homes, they can cycle, they can drive, they might even take a bus. One thing they're really not likely to do is come from very far away, because the only people who know about Leigh Park are the adjacent parts of the conurbation and they mostly look up their noses at it because it's poor.
    - graemep 11mo ago
      The claim was made further up the thread that "I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat" and I interpreted your photos as supporting that claim. My point is that it is not "shops with bike racks" that are the alternative to online groceries, it is a mix that definitely involves more use of cars than bikes, plus probably more walking and public transport than bikes too.
rsynnott 11mo ago
You'd get these in inner suburbs, too. And non-inner suburbs, for that matter.

by ekianjo 11mo ago

> Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient Most people don't live in city centers. Because they are the most expensive places to live in.

simgt 11mo ago

You don't always need to be a city center to have this convenience, but you can't be in an area that is car centric... And usually when people compare the cost of both of these places, they only account for the cost per square meter of accommodation.

ben_w 11mo ago

You don't need to be in a city centre for small shops with bike racks. This is village with a population of a bit less than 3000, which I only know about because I have walked East-West across most of the state of Brandenburg (from Słubice in Poland to the city of Brandenburg) and this trains station was a convenient break point: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3459295,14.2800967,3a,60y,142.2h,86.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDFKO6NzBeDShx7bNWbPYuw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D3.2456239270868394%26panoid%3DDFKO6NzBeDShx7bNWbPYuw%26yaw%3D142.19715659295255!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3459295,14.2800967,3a,60y,14... Here's Aberystwyth, where I did my degree, population 13k, nearby villages boost that by about 6k, students by another 8k: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4145833,-4.0848806,3a,75y,196.65h,82.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz4BcyFNmmrPIaHRCd15qMQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D7.068462889161324%26panoid%3Dz4BcyFNmmrPIaHRCd15qMQ%26yaw%3D196.65312216877732!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4145833,-4.0848806,3a,75y,19... I grew up on the south coast of the UK. Which is certainly expensive overall, but it has cheap areas like Leigh Park which used to be entirely council houses (i.e. made for poor people and run by the local council): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leigh+Park,+Havant,+UK/@50.8663948,-0.9854767,3a,64.9y,63.29h,81.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2z7pXItUov3gHqDKYcyejw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.87214493896991%26panoid%3D2z7pXItUov3gHqDKYcyejw%26yaw%3D63.2896498599043!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x487444eec35cfa8f:0xe0ed4519e9cb4e7d!8m2!3d50.8681413!4d-0.9866197!16zL20vMDV0cGg3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leigh+Park,+Havant,+UK/@50...

graemep 11mo ago
One of those shows several cars in the photo and a single bike. The other two show pedestrianised areas, and all three show pedestrians without any indication of how they go there. When I to to similar areas in my town (pop approx 23k) I have drive there, park, and then walk around. I have several shops within easy walking distance and many people (including me) do walk to them, but quite a few drive. Few bikes (kids mostly) at shops although leisure cycling is VERY popular here. One of the nice things about an edge of town area with its own identity as a village is we have a lot of local stuff which is walkable and friendly.
- ben_w 11mo ago
  > One of those shows several cars in the photo and a single bike. Yes, and? "Cars are popular" is not a surprising claim that anyone has been contradicting, so far as I can see. (Also, Aberystwyth is tiny enough to get around entirely on foot, and hilly enough that bikers have to be exceptionally fit, and yet despite this, bike racks). > The other two show pedestrianised areas, and all three show pedestrians without any indication of how they go there. The Edeka in Briesen is one of the other two, I don't see a pedestrianised area, do you mean the car park owing to the open-air market set up in it? The other one (Leigh Park) is literally in the middle of a typical UK conurbation with, as is normal in the UK, approximately universal pedestrian access. People can walk there easily from their homes, they can cycle, they can drive, they might even take a bus. One thing they're really not likely to do is come from very far away, because the only people who know about Leigh Park are the adjacent parts of the conurbation and they mostly look up their noses at it because it's poor.
  - graemep 11mo ago
    The claim was made further up the thread that "I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat" and I interpreted your photos as supporting that claim. My point is that it is not "shops with bike racks" that are the alternative to online groceries, it is a mix that definitely involves more use of cars than bikes, plus probably more walking and public transport than bikes too.

rsynnott 11mo ago

You'd get these in inner suburbs, too. And non-inner suburbs, for that matter.