3 ms·

Accessibility is more than just screen readers. Toasts are also not accessible for folks with low vision, low peripheral vision, etc. And the time-based disappe

Accessibility is more than just screen readers. Toasts are also not accessible for folks with low vision, low peripheral vision, etc. And the time-based disappearance is unpleasant for many people, as one of many examples of "accessibility improvements are also often usability improvements". A message that you have to explicitly dismiss, and that's stored in a "message history" somewhere, is much more accessible and usable.

herpdyderp 11mo ago
Accessibility doesn't even need to be related to any disability or unusual user requirement. A user-hostile website can be inaccessible even to users with perfect visual and motor functions.
d3Xt3r 11mo ago
That depends on the size of the toast, appearance and frequency. We (an MSP) used a Windows toast notification[1] to encourage people initiate the Win10 > Win11 upgrade at their own convenient time (before it gets forced down on them) - and we got a pretty high uptake. The overall feedback from both the project team and users were good: the toast was unmissable, the text explanation was clear, and the big banner image was eye catching. https://www.imab.dk/windows-10-toast-notification-script/ https://www.imab.dk/windows-10-toast-notification-script/
- Groxx 11mo ago
  If it has all of: a "big banner image", buttons that are required to interact or dismiss, doesn't go away on its own after only a couple seconds, and might(?) also exist in the notification center I think it's pretty safe to label that "definitely not a toast". That's just a notification, or maybe a "non-modal alert". Toasts are distinct from those by being brief and ephemeral.
  - d3Xt3r 11mo ago
    It is technically a toast, according to Microsoft. If you check the link in my previous comment, the script is using the Windows Runtime Toast Notification API, specifically the Windows.UI.Notifications namespace and the ToastGeneric XML toast template. You can see the API reference here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/uwp/api/windows.ui.notifications.toastnotifier?view=winrt-26100 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/uwp/api/windows.ui.notific...
pxc 11mo ago
> Toasts are also not accessible for folks with low vision To make this a little more concrete with one example: if you are using fullscreen magnification, odds are toasts will literally never appear on your monitor. By the time you pan over to their little corner of the screen (if you ever do), the toast will be long gone.
- mnhnthrow34 11mo ago
  Can confirm. I zoom and pan on lots of websites in my daily browsing and would have no idea if toasts are popping in and out. I'll notice system level toasts though.
Jtsummers 11mo ago
They also often show up in bad locations, requiring you to dismiss them explicitly so you can continue using other UI elements.
- licorices 11mo ago
  This is sometimes intentional. Some design it that way to ensure that if they are going to do a certain action, that they have seen the toast. Obviously far from being the case all the time, but it happens that it is intentional sometimes.
  - Griffinsauce 11mo ago
    That would make it an Alert or Dialog masquerading as a toast, no?
Muromec 11mo ago
Okay you are right, timer-adjustable disappearance and history is important too and if it's local to where user's fields of view it's better than a toast every time of the day.

herpdyderp 11mo ago

Accessibility doesn't even need to be related to any disability or unusual user requirement. A user-hostile website can be inaccessible even to users with perfect visual and motor functions.

d3Xt3r 11mo ago

That depends on the size of the toast, appearance and frequency. We (an MSP) used a Windows toast notification[1] to encourage people initiate the Win10 > Win11 upgrade at their own convenient time (before it gets forced down on them) - and we got a pretty high uptake. The overall feedback from both the project team and users were good: the toast was unmissable, the text explanation was clear, and the big banner image was eye catching. https://www.imab.dk/windows-10-toast-notification-script/ https://www.imab.dk/windows-10-toast-notification-script/

Groxx 11mo ago
If it has all of: a "big banner image", buttons that are required to interact or dismiss, doesn't go away on its own after only a couple seconds, and might(?) also exist in the notification center I think it's pretty safe to label that "definitely not a toast". That's just a notification, or maybe a "non-modal alert". Toasts are distinct from those by being brief and ephemeral.
- d3Xt3r 11mo ago
  It is technically a toast, according to Microsoft. If you check the link in my previous comment, the script is using the Windows Runtime Toast Notification API, specifically the Windows.UI.Notifications namespace and the ToastGeneric XML toast template. You can see the API reference here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/uwp/api/windows.ui.notifications.toastnotifier?view=winrt-26100 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/uwp/api/windows.ui.notific...

pxc 11mo ago

> Toasts are also not accessible for folks with low vision To make this a little more concrete with one example: if you are using fullscreen magnification, odds are toasts will literally never appear on your monitor. By the time you pan over to their little corner of the screen (if you ever do), the toast will be long gone.

mnhnthrow34 11mo ago
Can confirm. I zoom and pan on lots of websites in my daily browsing and would have no idea if toasts are popping in and out. I'll notice system level toasts though.

Jtsummers 11mo ago

They also often show up in bad locations, requiring you to dismiss them explicitly so you can continue using other UI elements.

licorices 11mo ago
This is sometimes intentional. Some design it that way to ensure that if they are going to do a certain action, that they have seen the toast. Obviously far from being the case all the time, but it happens that it is intentional sometimes.
- Griffinsauce 11mo ago
  That would make it an Alert or Dialog masquerading as a toast, no?

Muromec 11mo ago

Okay you are right, timer-adjustable disappearance and history is important too and if it's local to where user's fields of view it's better than a toast every time of the day.