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You're right, mostly, but the fact remains that the behavior we see is produced by training, and the training is driven by companies run by execs who like this
by not2b 10mo ago
You're right, mostly, but the fact remains that the behavior we see is produced by training, and the training is driven by companies run by execs who like this kind of sycophancy. So it's certainly a factor. Humans are producing them, humans are deciding when the new model is good enough for release.
- rockskon 10mo agoDo you honestly think an executive wanted a chat bot that confidently lies?
- not2b 10mo agoNo, but they like the sycophancy.
- dontlikeyoueith 10mo agoIn practice, yes, though they wouldn't think of it that way because that's the kind of people they surround themselves with, so it's what they think human interaction is actually like.
- rockskon 10mo ago"I want a chat bot that's just as reliable at Steve! Sure he doesn't get it right all the time and he cost us the Black+Decker contract, but he's so confident!" You're right! This is exactly what an executive wants to base the future of their business off of!
- Retric 10mo agoYou say that like it’s untrue, but they measurably prefer a lying but confident salesman over one who doesn’t act with that kind of confidence. This is very slightly more rational than it seems because repeating or acting on a lie gives you cover.
- dontlikeyoueith 10mo agoYes, that is in fact their revealed preference. Did you have a point?
- rockskon 10mo agoYou use unfalsifiable logic. And you seem to argue that, given the choice, CEOs would prefer not to maximize revenue in favor of... what, affection for an imaginary intern?
- dontlikeyoueith 10mo agoCute straw man. You must be a CEO. I'm not arguing anything. I'm observing reality. You're the one who is desperate to rationalize it.
- rockskon 10mo agoYou are declaring your imagined logic as fact. Since I do not agree with the basis upon which you pin your argument on, there is no further point in discussion.
- dontlikeyoueith 10mo agoYou're hallucinating things I did not say.
- jacquesm 10mo agoGiven the matrix 'competent/incompetent' / 'sycophant/critic' I would not take it as read that the 'incompetent/sycophant' quadrant would have no adherents, and I would not be surprised if it was the dominant one.
- mrguyorama 10mo agoPeople with immense wealth, connections, influence, and power demonstrably struggle to not surround themselves with people who only say what the powerful person already wants to hear regardless of reality. Putin didn't think Russia could take Ukraine in 3 days with literal celebration by the populace because he only works with honest folks for example. Rich people get disconnected from reality because people who insist on speaking truth and reality around them tend to stop getting invited to the influence peddling sessions.
- jandrese 10mo agoDo the lies look really good in a demo when you're pitching it to investors? Are they obscure enough that they aren't going to stand out? If so no problem.
- ryandrake 10mo agoThey may say they don't want to be lied to, but the incentives they put in place often inevitably result in them being surrounded by lying yes-men. We've all worked for someone where we were warned to never give them bad news, or you're done for. So everyone just lies to them and tells them everything is on track. The Emperor's New Clothes[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]