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It's clear that a faction hostile to the EU has taken hold of key institutional and corporate positions in the US. Fines are not enough, it's time to start fost

It's clear that a faction hostile to the EU has taken hold of key institutional and corporate positions in the US. Fines are not enough, it's time to start fostering an independent tech ecosystem in the EU and start raising a "Great Firewall" equivalent.

uyzstvqs 11mo ago
> and start raising a "Great Firewall" equivalent. May I suggest relocating to China or North Korea? I'd suggest Russia, but I doubt Putin is authoritarian enough for you. Let's turn our free internet into an authoritarian splinternet! It'll make everything better! /s
- saubeidl 11mo ago
  The authoritarians are the ones owning the platforms - X is owned by somebody who's openly calling for the abolishment of our democratic structures, is supporting far-right extremists in our countries and has done a Sieg Heil on the world stage. Getting their toxic propaganda out of our continent is the minimum we need to preserve our democracies. The paradox of tolerance applies.
  - uyzstvqs 11mo ago
    Even if that'd be true, two wrongs don't make a right. If a government centrally determines whether something is propaganda and censors it, then it's authoritarian. A free society is built on free information and free debate. If you don't have that, then you don't have a democracy to protect. There's no wiggle room or grey area there. Your government would be no better than Putin starting a "special military operation", and censoring all "foreign propaganda" calling it an invasion. Russia also holds elections, and yet Putin keeps winning.
    - saubeidl 11mo ago
      Again, I would recommend you familiarize yourself with the Paradox of Tolerance, written up by an Austrian philosopher after the horrors of WW2. Honestly, the entire book - The Open Society and its Enemies - might be a good read. We've been here before. We learned our lesson. We can't wait for Americans to catch up.
casey2 10mo ago
Not going to happen. The EU makes more from fines on US tech companies than taxes on EU tech companies. It's unclear at this point if EU leaders have any authority to even collect any money or if they are just an anachronism. There are people that want to work and people that don't, somehow the EU is run by people that don't. The EU is in for a rude awakening when US companies stop paying these illegal fines and EU companies stop paying illegal taxes.

uyzstvqs 11mo ago

> and start raising a "Great Firewall" equivalent. May I suggest relocating to China or North Korea? I'd suggest Russia, but I doubt Putin is authoritarian enough for you. Let's turn our free internet into an authoritarian splinternet! It'll make everything better! /s

saubeidl 11mo ago
The authoritarians are the ones owning the platforms - X is owned by somebody who's openly calling for the abolishment of our democratic structures, is supporting far-right extremists in our countries and has done a Sieg Heil on the world stage. Getting their toxic propaganda out of our continent is the minimum we need to preserve our democracies. The paradox of tolerance applies.
- uyzstvqs 11mo ago
  Even if that'd be true, two wrongs don't make a right. If a government centrally determines whether something is propaganda and censors it, then it's authoritarian. A free society is built on free information and free debate. If you don't have that, then you don't have a democracy to protect. There's no wiggle room or grey area there. Your government would be no better than Putin starting a "special military operation", and censoring all "foreign propaganda" calling it an invasion. Russia also holds elections, and yet Putin keeps winning.
  - saubeidl 11mo ago
    Again, I would recommend you familiarize yourself with the Paradox of Tolerance, written up by an Austrian philosopher after the horrors of WW2. Honestly, the entire book - The Open Society and its Enemies - might be a good read. We've been here before. We learned our lesson. We can't wait for Americans to catch up.

casey2 10mo ago

Not going to happen. The EU makes more from fines on US tech companies than taxes on EU tech companies. It's unclear at this point if EU leaders have any authority to even collect any money or if they are just an anachronism. There are people that want to work and people that don't, somehow the EU is run by people that don't. The EU is in for a rude awakening when US companies stop paying these illegal fines and EU companies stop paying illegal taxes.