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But humans do the same thing. How many eons did we make the mistake of attributing everything to God's will, without a scientific thought in our heads? It's r

But humans do the same thing. How many eons did we make the mistake of attributing everything to God's will, without a scientific thought in our heads? It's really easy to be wrong, when the consequences don't lead to your death, or are actually beneficial. The thinking machines are still babies, whose ideas aren't honed by personal experience; but that will come, in one form or another.

littlestymaar 10mo ago
> The thinking machines are still babies, whose ideas aren't honed by personal experience; but that will come, in one form or another. Some machines, maybe. But attention-based LLMs aren't these machines.
- quantummagic 10mo ago
  I'm not sure. If you see what they're doing with feedback already in code generation. The LLM makes a "hallucination", generates the wrong idea, then tests its code only to find out it doesn't compile. And goes on to change its idea, and try again.
  - littlestymaar 10mo ago
    A few minutes worth of “personal experience” doesn't really deserve the “personal experience” qualifier.
    - quantummagic 10mo ago
      Why not? It's just a minor example of what's possible, to show the general concept has already started.
      - littlestymaar 10mo ago
        > show the general concept has already started The same way a todler creeping is the start of the general concept of space exploration.
        quantummagic 10mo ago
        Yes. And even so, it shows remarkable effectiveness already.
        littlestymaar 10mo ago
        Like a car engine or a combine. The problem isn't the effectiveness of the tool for its purpose, it's the religion around it.
        quantummagic 10mo ago
        We seem to be talking past one another. All I was talking about was the facts of how these systems perform, without any reverence about it at all. But to your point, I do see a lot of people very emotionally and psychologically committed to pointing out how deeply magical humans are, and how impossible we are to replicate in silicon. We have a religion about ourselves; we truly do have main character syndrome. It's why we mistakenly thought the earth was at the center of the universe for eons. But even with that disproved, our self-importance remains boundless.
        littlestymaar 10mo ago
        > I do see a lot of people very emotionally and psychologically committed to pointing out how deeply magical humans are, and how impossible we are to replicate in silicon. This a straw man, the question isn't if this is possible or not (this is an open question), it's about whether or not we are already here, and the answer is pretty straightforward: no we aren't. (And the current technology isn't going to bring us anywhere near that)

littlestymaar 10mo ago

> The thinking machines are still babies, whose ideas aren't honed by personal experience; but that will come, in one form or another. Some machines, maybe. But attention-based LLMs aren't these machines.

quantummagic 10mo ago
I'm not sure. If you see what they're doing with feedback already in code generation. The LLM makes a "hallucination", generates the wrong idea, then tests its code only to find out it doesn't compile. And goes on to change its idea, and try again.
- littlestymaar 10mo ago
  A few minutes worth of “personal experience” doesn't really deserve the “personal experience” qualifier.
  - quantummagic 10mo ago
    Why not? It's just a minor example of what's possible, to show the general concept has already started.
    - littlestymaar 10mo ago
      > show the general concept has already started The same way a todler creeping is the start of the general concept of space exploration.
      - quantummagic 10mo ago
        Yes. And even so, it shows remarkable effectiveness already.
        littlestymaar 10mo ago
        Like a car engine or a combine. The problem isn't the effectiveness of the tool for its purpose, it's the religion around it.
        quantummagic 10mo ago
        We seem to be talking past one another. All I was talking about was the facts of how these systems perform, without any reverence about it at all. But to your point, I do see a lot of people very emotionally and psychologically committed to pointing out how deeply magical humans are, and how impossible we are to replicate in silicon. We have a religion about ourselves; we truly do have main character syndrome. It's why we mistakenly thought the earth was at the center of the universe for eons. But even with that disproved, our self-importance remains boundless.
        littlestymaar 10mo ago
        > I do see a lot of people very emotionally and psychologically committed to pointing out how deeply magical humans are, and how impossible we are to replicate in silicon. This a straw man, the question isn't if this is possible or not (this is an open question), it's about whether or not we are already here, and the answer is pretty straightforward: no we aren't. (And the current technology isn't going to bring us anywhere near that)