3 ms·

> I want to buy subversive literature from someone I already trust not to rip me off Subversive literature printed on blotter paper. Outside of buying sex and

by bhickey 10mo ago

> I want to buy subversive literature from someone I already trust not to rip me off Subversive literature printed on blotter paper. Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are, and always has been, ransoms, scams and gambling.

AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
Okay, tell me how I buy something over the internet without tying the purchase to my government ID. Your argument seems like "only criminals want privacy" which is a no.
- habinero 10mo ago
  No, the argument is crypto is primarily used for crimes. Which is true. Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto.
  - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
    > No, the argument is crypto is primarily used for crimes. Which is true. The argument is right here: > Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are, and always has been, ransoms, scams and gambling. It doesn't contain the word "primarily" which indeed makes it false, and the rebuttal to your different claim is this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46190260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46190260 > Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto. Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID?
    - yunohn 10mo ago
      Sorry, which web shops demand governmental ID? I have never had to provide them mine in any of the countries I’ve lived in. If your concern is the webshop finding out your address, well I’m unsure how you solve this when you buy with crypto, but again ship to your home. If you have an alternative place to get it delivered for privacy, might as well do that with fiat transactions the same way.
      - gr4vityWall 10mo ago
        > which web shops demand governmental ID? Basically all web shops in Brazil require you to give a government ID to buy anything (usually your CPF number).
        mothballed 10mo ago
        Brazil has an insane number of 'illegal' immigrants as well as people living in Favela who essentially don't even recognize the state, so I'm curious how that works. I assume it's something like the US where 10 illegals work under one social security number or a tax ID they've registered under the auspice of foreign controlled business.
        gr4vityWall 10mo ago
        > an insane number of 'illegal' immigrants Immigrants can request a CPF (the 'national ID'). I don't think being in the country 'legally' is a requirement, that isn't enforced the way it is in the US. > people living in Favela who essentially don't even recognize the state Most people get assigned an ID at birth. And people who live in a favela often have to work outside it, and they interact with most companies/state services that aren't utilities as usual. Utilities OTOH often get MITM'd by militia/narcos these days though. > I assume it's something like the US where 10 illegals work under one social security number or a tax ID No need for anything fancy like that. The poorest people are willing to work based on verbal agreements, as the alternative is either starving, or hoping the public social security network has your back. And in case your employer requires one, that's a non-issue because, except for rare circumstances, everyone has one. Digital banking, install payments and general smartphone usage is widely popular, including favelas.
      - joseda-hg 10mo ago
        The store usually* doesn't demand it, but your ID is tied to your cards via your bank's KYC obligations anyway * It's becoming more common for sites to ask for ID, I've gotten prompted for it buying a cellphone online, to access an old Facebook account and even Hetzner (Before ever using it) because I got flagged as high risk
    - Lio 10mo ago
      >> Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto. > Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID? Isn't the real question more, does crypto actually allow you buy things without tying the purchase to a government ID? I'm no expert but I regularly see articles about de-anonymisation. This leads me to be sceptical about claims to privacy, certainly given enough time and motivation by a government actor.
      - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
        Go to any retailer and buy any in-demand product with the same market value as what you want to buy. Sell it on Craigslist or similar for cryptocurrency using a new wallet. Buy whatever you wanted to buy, never use that wallet again. Alternatively, mine the cryptocurrency yourself, again using a separate wallet for each purchase. The deanonymization comes from tying any transaction performed by a particular wallet to your identity and thereby deanonymizing all of the other transactions. Which doesn't work if the wallet only ever has two transactions and neither of them are tied to your identity. That's assuming traditional chains. Privacy coins also exist.
      - habinero 10mo ago
        You don't need to be a government actor, even. You just need to understand what a graph is and be willing to patiently walk through the txns. It's not even that difficult. I have investigator friends who regularly do it as part of fraud investigations.
    - brohee 10mo ago
      > Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID? By using a prepaid (debit|gift) card bought for cash in a convenience store? Much better anonymity that way. And much less volatility.
    - scotty79 10mo ago
      > Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are ... Apparently Black Rock and such buy billions of dollars worth of sex and drugs. I wonder where they keep it.
  - andrepd 10mo ago
    Yes, and "buying subversive literature" is a crime too. That was the original point.
    - habinero 10mo ago
      If you took all the crypto txns and grouped them by purchase, I would be willing to bet mortgage money that approximately nobody uses crypto to buy "subversive literature", out to many many decimal places of precision.
      - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
        Why does that matter to the person who wants to buy subversive literature?
- Loughla 10mo ago
  Go buy eBay gift cards with cash?
- the_gastropod 10mo ago
  Just for fun, I’ve paid for my Mullvad subscription with the incredible technology of putting cash in an envelope and sending it.
- triceratops 10mo ago
  Use a pre-paid Visa gift card purchased with cash.
  - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
    They ask you for your social security number when you try to activate it.
    - triceratops 10mo ago
      At the checkout?
      - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
        The cards aren't activated. You open it and there's a link or phone number to activate it and then they ask you who you are.
- kotaKat 10mo ago
  I used to mail money orders to people to buy things over the Internet as a kid, before I had access to a bank account. Before you could just buy Pocky at any old Walmart in the US, I remember mailing Celga[1] a money order to purchase some directly from Japan… [1] https://www.celga.com/ https://www.celga.com/
  - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
    Mailing them something isn't "over the internet". You might as well say you could get on a plane. How do you do it as a digital transaction that doesn't take a week to go through?
gloosx 10mo ago
>Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are, and always has been, ransoms, scams and gambling That is a very shallow take. There are real non-criminal uses for crypto that people in stable, wealthy countries often overlook. Millions rely on it simply to move money between family members across borders when traditional banking is slow, blocked, or outright inaccessible due to politics. In several countries, people use crypto to buy food, medicine, or basic goods because their local currency is collapsing or their banking system is dysfunctional, or their entire nation has been cut off from the global financial system as a decision of few politics persons. Its fine to criticise the scams and speculation — there is plenty of that — but pretending thats the only use case ignores the people who depend on it for everyday survival.
- bhickey 10mo ago
  And the Glock switch is useful for home defense.
- FabHK 10mo ago
  > the people who depend on it for everyday survival Oh, my, all those poor people that died prior to 2009.
  - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
    Are you disputing that people in impoverished or mismanaged countries die of hunger or preventable diseases when they can't buy food or medicine?
  - gloosx 10mo ago
    Reducing real human struggles to a punchline is exactly the kind of cynical detachment you can afford only if you have never lived through a failed banking system. If you had lived through what people in some countries deal with, you would not be making snarky comments The reality is that crypto became a lifeline in places where the traditional financial system collapsed or simply abandoned people: Venezuela, Argentina, Lebanon, Nigeria are good examples of people dealing with real crises, using whatever tools actually work, including crypto currencies.

by bhickey 10mo ago

AnthonyMouse 10mo ago

Okay, tell me how I buy something over the internet without tying the purchase to my government ID. Your argument seems like "only criminals want privacy" which is a no.

habinero 10mo ago
No, the argument is crypto is primarily used for crimes. Which is true. Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto.
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
  > No, the argument is crypto is primarily used for crimes. Which is true. The argument is right here: > Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are, and always has been, ransoms, scams and gambling. It doesn't contain the word "primarily" which indeed makes it false, and the rebuttal to your different claim is this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46190260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46190260 > Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto. Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID?
  - yunohn 10mo ago
    Sorry, which web shops demand governmental ID? I have never had to provide them mine in any of the countries I’ve lived in. If your concern is the webshop finding out your address, well I’m unsure how you solve this when you buy with crypto, but again ship to your home. If you have an alternative place to get it delivered for privacy, might as well do that with fiat transactions the same way.
    - gr4vityWall 10mo ago
      > which web shops demand governmental ID? Basically all web shops in Brazil require you to give a government ID to buy anything (usually your CPF number).
      - mothballed 10mo ago
        Brazil has an insane number of 'illegal' immigrants as well as people living in Favela who essentially don't even recognize the state, so I'm curious how that works. I assume it's something like the US where 10 illegals work under one social security number or a tax ID they've registered under the auspice of foreign controlled business.
        gr4vityWall 10mo ago
        > an insane number of 'illegal' immigrants Immigrants can request a CPF (the 'national ID'). I don't think being in the country 'legally' is a requirement, that isn't enforced the way it is in the US. > people living in Favela who essentially don't even recognize the state Most people get assigned an ID at birth. And people who live in a favela often have to work outside it, and they interact with most companies/state services that aren't utilities as usual. Utilities OTOH often get MITM'd by militia/narcos these days though. > I assume it's something like the US where 10 illegals work under one social security number or a tax ID No need for anything fancy like that. The poorest people are willing to work based on verbal agreements, as the alternative is either starving, or hoping the public social security network has your back. And in case your employer requires one, that's a non-issue because, except for rare circumstances, everyone has one. Digital banking, install payments and general smartphone usage is widely popular, including favelas.
    - joseda-hg 10mo ago
      The store usually* doesn't demand it, but your ID is tied to your cards via your bank's KYC obligations anyway * It's becoming more common for sites to ask for ID, I've gotten prompted for it buying a cellphone online, to access an old Facebook account and even Hetzner (Before ever using it) because I got flagged as high risk
  - Lio 10mo ago
    >> Also, if you want privacy, don't use crypto. > Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID? Isn't the real question more, does crypto actually allow you buy things without tying the purchase to a government ID? I'm no expert but I regularly see articles about de-anonymisation. This leads me to be sceptical about claims to privacy, certainly given enough time and motivation by a government actor.
    - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
      Go to any retailer and buy any in-demand product with the same market value as what you want to buy. Sell it on Craigslist or similar for cryptocurrency using a new wallet. Buy whatever you wanted to buy, never use that wallet again. Alternatively, mine the cryptocurrency yourself, again using a separate wallet for each purchase. The deanonymization comes from tying any transaction performed by a particular wallet to your identity and thereby deanonymizing all of the other transactions. Which doesn't work if the wallet only ever has two transactions and neither of them are tied to your identity. That's assuming traditional chains. Privacy coins also exist.
    - habinero 10mo ago
      You don't need to be a government actor, even. You just need to understand what a graph is and be willing to patiently walk through the txns. It's not even that difficult. I have investigator friends who regularly do it as part of fraud investigations.
  - brohee 10mo ago
    > Can you tell me another way of buying something over the internet without tying the purchase to a government ID? By using a prepaid (debit|gift) card bought for cash in a convenience store? Much better anonymity that way. And much less volatility.
  - scotty79 10mo ago
    > Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are ... Apparently Black Rock and such buy billions of dollars worth of sex and drugs. I wonder where they keep it.
- andrepd 10mo ago
  Yes, and "buying subversive literature" is a crime too. That was the original point.
  - habinero 10mo ago
    If you took all the crypto txns and grouped them by purchase, I would be willing to bet mortgage money that approximately nobody uses crypto to buy "subversive literature", out to many many decimal places of precision.
    - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
      Why does that matter to the person who wants to buy subversive literature?
Loughla 10mo ago
Go buy eBay gift cards with cash?
the_gastropod 10mo ago
Just for fun, I’ve paid for my Mullvad subscription with the incredible technology of putting cash in an envelope and sending it.
triceratops 10mo ago
Use a pre-paid Visa gift card purchased with cash.
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
  They ask you for your social security number when you try to activate it.
  - triceratops 10mo ago
    At the checkout?
    - AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
      The cards aren't activated. You open it and there's a link or phone number to activate it and then they ask you who you are.
kotaKat 10mo ago
I used to mail money orders to people to buy things over the Internet as a kid, before I had access to a bank account. Before you could just buy Pocky at any old Walmart in the US, I remember mailing Celga[1] a money order to purchase some directly from Japan… [1] https://www.celga.com/ https://www.celga.com/
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
  Mailing them something isn't "over the internet". You might as well say you could get on a plane. How do you do it as a digital transaction that doesn't take a week to go through?

gloosx 10mo ago

>Outside of buying sex and drugs the only uses for cryptocoins are, and always has been, ransoms, scams and gambling That is a very shallow take. There are real non-criminal uses for crypto that people in stable, wealthy countries often overlook. Millions rely on it simply to move money between family members across borders when traditional banking is slow, blocked, or outright inaccessible due to politics. In several countries, people use crypto to buy food, medicine, or basic goods because their local currency is collapsing or their banking system is dysfunctional, or their entire nation has been cut off from the global financial system as a decision of few politics persons. Its fine to criticise the scams and speculation — there is plenty of that — but pretending thats the only use case ignores the people who depend on it for everyday survival.

bhickey 10mo ago
And the Glock switch is useful for home defense.
FabHK 10mo ago
> the people who depend on it for everyday survival Oh, my, all those poor people that died prior to 2009.
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago
  Are you disputing that people in impoverished or mismanaged countries die of hunger or preventable diseases when they can't buy food or medicine?
- gloosx 10mo ago
  Reducing real human struggles to a punchline is exactly the kind of cynical detachment you can afford only if you have never lived through a failed banking system. If you had lived through what people in some countries deal with, you would not be making snarky comments The reality is that crypto became a lifeline in places where the traditional financial system collapsed or simply abandoned people: Venezuela, Argentina, Lebanon, Nigeria are good examples of people dealing with real crises, using whatever tools actually work, including crypto currencies.