3 ms·

Objective-C is basically Java so I wouldn’t call it that weird.

gnabgib 11mo ago
Objective-C is significantly (11 years) older than Java. 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)
- saagarjha 11mo ago
  Correct, Java was designed with a strongly influence from Objective-C.
  - gnabgib 11mo ago
    One might even say Java is basically Objective-C
    - saagarjha 11mo ago
      No, Java never took anything good from the language.
      - pjmlp 11mo ago
        Sun folks disagree, https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere Sure, they could have taken a bit more, like proper AOT instead of it being a feature only available in third party commercial JDKs, or some low level niceties like C#.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        I was talking about good parts of the language
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        Like [] and @ all over the place, C lack of safety, and manual memory management? Because I don't see what else good Java has left out, besides AOT in the box and unsigned types.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Uh, the entire runtime?
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        I beg to differ, given the engineering effort that went into JVM across various Java vendors, versus Apple and NeXT have done. Proven by the fact that Swift had to be invented, as there was nothing left to fix Objective-C in a proper way.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Swift has that runtime, by the way.
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        Nope, Swift interops with Objective-C runtime to ease code migration from legacy Objective-C code, and existing Apple frameworks predating Swift. A runtime that isn't part of the cross-platform Swift project, with missing functionality being rewriten into Swift.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Yes, and those platforms are worse off for it.
    - pjmlp 11mo ago
      Kind of, but with C++ syntax to make it more appealing, https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html

Objective-C is significantly (11 years) older than Java. 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)

saagarjha 11mo ago
Correct, Java was designed with a strongly influence from Objective-C.
- gnabgib 11mo ago
  One might even say Java is basically Objective-C
  - saagarjha 11mo ago
    No, Java never took anything good from the language.
    - pjmlp 11mo ago
      Sun folks disagree, https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere Sure, they could have taken a bit more, like proper AOT instead of it being a feature only available in third party commercial JDKs, or some low level niceties like C#.
      - saagarjha 11mo ago
        I was talking about good parts of the language
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        Like [] and @ all over the place, C lack of safety, and manual memory management? Because I don't see what else good Java has left out, besides AOT in the box and unsigned types.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Uh, the entire runtime?
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        I beg to differ, given the engineering effort that went into JVM across various Java vendors, versus Apple and NeXT have done. Proven by the fact that Swift had to be invented, as there was nothing left to fix Objective-C in a proper way.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Swift has that runtime, by the way.
        pjmlp 11mo ago
        Nope, Swift interops with Objective-C runtime to ease code migration from legacy Objective-C code, and existing Apple frameworks predating Swift. A runtime that isn't part of the cross-platform Swift project, with missing functionality being rewriten into Swift.
        saagarjha 11mo ago
        Yes, and those platforms are worse off for it.
  - pjmlp 11mo ago
    Kind of, but with C++ syntax to make it more appealing, https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html https://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/java-objc.html