5 ms·

Everyone is trying his best to be PC, but the real takeaway is that you have to be careful not to hire some ultra-sensitive pantywaist thug who publicly cries "

Everyone is trying his best to be PC, but the real takeaway is that you have to be careful not to hire some ultra-sensitive pantywaist thug who publicly cries "racist" at every shitty joke, giving your company weeks of terrible PR to clean up. “Hey he’s dressed like Run DMC, does he know how to rap?” Oh, the poor darling. Let's ruin a bunch of people's livelihoods over this apparently wicked comment.

indy 14y ago
you sound racist
- sergiotapia 14y ago
  As a Latino minority, promptly go fuck yourself. You and the PC crowd are the scourge against "getting shit done". Go back to /r/shitredditsays you twat. If you're offended by things like this you are either: a) Extremely sheltered. b) A racist yourself.
  - coderdude 14y ago
    This place is ridiculous. They're calling him racist, a troll, coward, little boy? These people are being upvoted for this? It's pathetic and embarrassing to be lumped in with this crowd. You're being downvoted for speaking the truth. They're not downvoting you because you called someone racist or sheltered, at least you know that. It can't be because you told him to go fuck himself since being civil obviously isn't something they care about either.
  - npc 14y ago
    how is it necessary to make racist comments in order to "get shit done"? will your production systems all crash if you don't make a minimum of 5 jokes about nappy hair and malt liquor a day? have you encountered a nasty bug in rails that can only be fixed by exposing it to clips of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's?
    - sergiotapia 14y ago
      It's not a matter of it being necessary or unnecessary. It's a matter of letting small things slide or taking them in strides. Haven't you ever seen a movie where men jostle each other and call each other things too crass to type in here? Do they whine and run to the boss about how "mean they were"? Of course not, because clearly in this case it's just a case of men being men and flinging the usual shit at each other. I'm surprised I have to spell this out. Don't you have friends?
      - jarek 14y ago
        > Don't you have friends? How often do you ask your black friends if they know how to rap?
      - alecdibble 14y ago
        The idea is that BY LAW, you should not have to be subjected to that kind of environment in the workplace. If you don't like it, then get the law changed.
  - indy 14y ago
    Wow. Wouldn't call myself sheltered or racist but I am a British Asian who has experienced racism at work.
    - barking 14y ago
      I was once accused of being prejudiced by a british asian after we fell out over some business. Prior to that this person had boasted to me about how despite their family having lived in Trinidad for generations there was 'not one drop of mixed blood' in their family
      - anu_gupta 14y ago
        @barking. So what? Honestly, so what? Are you trying to say that even by the standards of other prejudiced people you come across as prejudiced? Or perhaps you're implying that one act of prejudice by someone from a "minority" means that it's open season on all minorities?
        barking 14y ago
        Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves? That perhaps the accuser should be looked at as critically as the accused.
        Anechoic 14y ago
        Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves? Really? The "I know you are, but what am I" defense?
        barking 14y ago
        OK I had to look that up to understand what you meant (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20know%20you%20are%20but%20what%20am%20i%3F http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20know%20yo...). You're suggesting that my previous response is a total fail. At the risk of my appearing to be totally thick, can I ask you to explain why?
- barking 14y ago
  He sounds angry and a bit OTT to me. Inferring that someone is a racist (as you're doing) is extremely serious. Your remark comes across as a bit creepy actually
  - indy 14y ago
    I'm well aware of how serious the accusation is. Mynameishere sounds like a racist, if you find that 'creepy' then so be it
  - roguecoder 14y ago
    First, no one inferred that he was racist, they said what he had said sounded racist. Second, why do you think it's "extremely serious" to consider something someone said racist? I consider racism itself extremely serious, but there's no consequence for expressing racism in a quasi-anonymous comment environment. There's not even any consequence for being called a racist. I am utterly confused as to how saying that racist statements sound racist could be "extremely serious", in that we should refrain from doing so. What consequences do you expect to follow? Actually being a racist? Bad. Pointing out that something sounded racist? An opportunity for the person who said that to apologize and reframe or withdraw, perhaps leading to a less racist environment.
    - snogglethorpe 14y ago
      > there's no consequence for expressing racism in a quasi-anonymous comment environment Welllll, you never really know though. It seems prudent to not underestimate the googling skills of future (potential) employers...
    - Torgo 14y ago
      You're missing the point. It's unavoidable that if you say "you sound racist" that that attributes a trait to the person rather than their behavior, and is not much different than saying "you are a racist." The rule of thumb is address the behavior rather than the person, which is why the corrective response is supposed to be something like "wow, what you said sounded racist" It's a subtle but important difference. Then you are inviting the person to ask themself internally "did I mean what I said?" or "do I want to sound racist to other people?" instead of going on the defensive because they as a person are being labelled a cultural undesirable. If you make a statement about the person themself there's no avenue forward for discussion or correction, you just made an enemy. But if you make it about the speech, even if they get defensive about it you can clarify that you are addressing the behavior. There are consequences here because there is username, user identities are often shared across sites, and there is a karma system here. They may be mild, but obviously karma is consequential or it wouldn't exist as a concept on the site. Your score is your aggregate reputation among other users. People fear saying things that will lower their karma.
nicholas_tuzzio 14y ago
Spoken like someone who hasn't had to deal with casual and/or institutional racism much.
- pleasebehonest 14y ago
  As of the time of my posting, all four responses to mynameishere have been ad hominem attacks. Edit: Make that five.
anu_gupta 14y ago
You're a coward. Now go away and stop trolling, little boy.
dmauro 14y ago
Kixeye is probably hiring now, sounds like you would do well there :/
prickappa 14y ago
^ This.
phene 14y ago
So you like telling awful jokes and shitting on people who dress and look different from you, huh? I guess it makes you feel better about yourself.
flyinglizard 14y ago
I wonder how many of those burying your comment would hire that guy themselves.
mcantelon 14y ago
>Oh, the poor darling. Let's ruin a bunch of people's livelihoods over this apparently wicked comment. This guy didn't ruin anyone's livelihoods. He relayed what happened to him. Last I heard people are allowed to do that.
ANH 14y ago
Did you not read the original blog post? It evoked in me a very strong sense of empathy for the victim. In case it's not clear to you who the victim is in this case, recommend you find that post and read it. Imagine having these things said to you, having it reinforced by others at your workplace. Imagine how dehumanizing it is. The indignity. Imagine having to face it again, day after day. And you've been dealing with it your entire life. Just take five minutes and think about the real impact this sort of thing has on someone.
psykotic 14y ago
> Everyone is trying his best to be PC, but the real takeaway is that you have to be careful not to hire some ultra-sensitive pantywaist thug who publicly cries "racist" at every shitty joke, giving your company weeks of terrible PR to clean up. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you aren't trolling but just being obtuse. This wasn't a one-off misunderstanding. It was a series of unambiguous incidents, all in a single month. This has nothing to do with political correctness. I'm sure the casual conversations among me and my coworkers would be extremely offensive to some people. When you know someone well enough to know their boundaries, you can step beyond the norms of decency without risking offense. This is so self-evident that even the most socially awkward programmers know it instinctively. Can you misread someone and offend them gravely as a result? Yes, we've all done that. But if you're the least bit considerate, it's a one-time incident and ends there.
- aaronbrethorst 14y ago
  Whoops, I accidentally downvoted you. Sorry about that :-\

indy 14y ago

you sound racist

sergiotapia 14y ago
As a Latino minority, promptly go fuck yourself. You and the PC crowd are the scourge against "getting shit done". Go back to /r/shitredditsays you twat. If you're offended by things like this you are either: a) Extremely sheltered. b) A racist yourself.
- coderdude 14y ago
  This place is ridiculous. They're calling him racist, a troll, coward, little boy? These people are being upvoted for this? It's pathetic and embarrassing to be lumped in with this crowd. You're being downvoted for speaking the truth. They're not downvoting you because you called someone racist or sheltered, at least you know that. It can't be because you told him to go fuck himself since being civil obviously isn't something they care about either.
- npc 14y ago
  how is it necessary to make racist comments in order to "get shit done"? will your production systems all crash if you don't make a minimum of 5 jokes about nappy hair and malt liquor a day? have you encountered a nasty bug in rails that can only be fixed by exposing it to clips of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's?
  - sergiotapia 14y ago
    It's not a matter of it being necessary or unnecessary. It's a matter of letting small things slide or taking them in strides. Haven't you ever seen a movie where men jostle each other and call each other things too crass to type in here? Do they whine and run to the boss about how "mean they were"? Of course not, because clearly in this case it's just a case of men being men and flinging the usual shit at each other. I'm surprised I have to spell this out. Don't you have friends?
    - jarek 14y ago
      > Don't you have friends? How often do you ask your black friends if they know how to rap?
    - alecdibble 14y ago
      The idea is that BY LAW, you should not have to be subjected to that kind of environment in the workplace. If you don't like it, then get the law changed.
- indy 14y ago
  Wow. Wouldn't call myself sheltered or racist but I am a British Asian who has experienced racism at work.
  - barking 14y ago
    I was once accused of being prejudiced by a british asian after we fell out over some business. Prior to that this person had boasted to me about how despite their family having lived in Trinidad for generations there was 'not one drop of mixed blood' in their family
    - anu_gupta 14y ago
      @barking. So what? Honestly, so what? Are you trying to say that even by the standards of other prejudiced people you come across as prejudiced? Or perhaps you're implying that one act of prejudice by someone from a "minority" means that it's open season on all minorities?
      - barking 14y ago
        Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves? That perhaps the accuser should be looked at as critically as the accused.
        Anechoic 14y ago
        Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves? Really? The "I know you are, but what am I" defense?
        barking 14y ago
        OK I had to look that up to understand what you meant (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20know%20you%20are%20but%20what%20am%20i%3F http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%20know%20yo...). You're suggesting that my previous response is a total fail. At the risk of my appearing to be totally thick, can I ask you to explain why?
barking 14y ago
He sounds angry and a bit OTT to me. Inferring that someone is a racist (as you're doing) is extremely serious. Your remark comes across as a bit creepy actually
- indy 14y ago
  I'm well aware of how serious the accusation is. Mynameishere sounds like a racist, if you find that 'creepy' then so be it
- roguecoder 14y ago
  First, no one inferred that he was racist, they said what he had said sounded racist. Second, why do you think it's "extremely serious" to consider something someone said racist? I consider racism itself extremely serious, but there's no consequence for expressing racism in a quasi-anonymous comment environment. There's not even any consequence for being called a racist. I am utterly confused as to how saying that racist statements sound racist could be "extremely serious", in that we should refrain from doing so. What consequences do you expect to follow? Actually being a racist? Bad. Pointing out that something sounded racist? An opportunity for the person who said that to apologize and reframe or withdraw, perhaps leading to a less racist environment.
  - snogglethorpe 14y ago
    > there's no consequence for expressing racism in a quasi-anonymous comment environment Welllll, you never really know though. It seems prudent to not underestimate the googling skills of future (potential) employers...
  - Torgo 14y ago
    You're missing the point. It's unavoidable that if you say "you sound racist" that that attributes a trait to the person rather than their behavior, and is not much different than saying "you are a racist." The rule of thumb is address the behavior rather than the person, which is why the corrective response is supposed to be something like "wow, what you said sounded racist" It's a subtle but important difference. Then you are inviting the person to ask themself internally "did I mean what I said?" or "do I want to sound racist to other people?" instead of going on the defensive because they as a person are being labelled a cultural undesirable. If you make a statement about the person themself there's no avenue forward for discussion or correction, you just made an enemy. But if you make it about the speech, even if they get defensive about it you can clarify that you are addressing the behavior. There are consequences here because there is username, user identities are often shared across sites, and there is a karma system here. They may be mild, but obviously karma is consequential or it wouldn't exist as a concept on the site. Your score is your aggregate reputation among other users. People fear saying things that will lower their karma.

nicholas_tuzzio 14y ago

Spoken like someone who hasn't had to deal with casual and/or institutional racism much.

pleasebehonest 14y ago
As of the time of my posting, all four responses to mynameishere have been ad hominem attacks. Edit: Make that five.

anu_gupta 14y ago

You're a coward. Now go away and stop trolling, little boy.

dmauro 14y ago

Kixeye is probably hiring now, sounds like you would do well there :/

prickappa 14y ago

^ This.

phene 14y ago

So you like telling awful jokes and shitting on people who dress and look different from you, huh? I guess it makes you feel better about yourself.

flyinglizard 14y ago

I wonder how many of those burying your comment would hire that guy themselves.

mcantelon 14y ago

>Oh, the poor darling. Let's ruin a bunch of people's livelihoods over this apparently wicked comment. This guy didn't ruin anyone's livelihoods. He relayed what happened to him. Last I heard people are allowed to do that.

ANH 14y ago

Did you not read the original blog post? It evoked in me a very strong sense of empathy for the victim. In case it's not clear to you who the victim is in this case, recommend you find that post and read it. Imagine having these things said to you, having it reinforced by others at your workplace. Imagine how dehumanizing it is. The indignity. Imagine having to face it again, day after day. And you've been dealing with it your entire life. Just take five minutes and think about the real impact this sort of thing has on someone.

psykotic 14y ago

> Everyone is trying his best to be PC, but the real takeaway is that you have to be careful not to hire some ultra-sensitive pantywaist thug who publicly cries "racist" at every shitty joke, giving your company weeks of terrible PR to clean up. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you aren't trolling but just being obtuse. This wasn't a one-off misunderstanding. It was a series of unambiguous incidents, all in a single month. This has nothing to do with political correctness. I'm sure the casual conversations among me and my coworkers would be extremely offensive to some people. When you know someone well enough to know their boundaries, you can step beyond the norms of decency without risking offense. This is so self-evident that even the most socially awkward programmers know it instinctively. Can you misread someone and offend them gravely as a result? Yes, we've all done that. But if you're the least bit considerate, it's a one-time incident and ends there.

aaronbrethorst 14y ago
Whoops, I accidentally downvoted you. Sorry about that :-\