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For those interested, the F-35 (née Joint Strike Fighter) C++ coding standards can be found here, all 142 pages of it: https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.

For those interested, the F-35 (née Joint Strike Fighter) C++ coding standards can be found here, all 142 pages of it: https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

tgv 11mo ago
From quickly glancing over a couple of pages, that looks sensible. Which makes me curious to see some exceptions to the "shall" rules. With a project of this size, that should give some idea about the usefulness of such standards.
OhNoNotAgain_99 11mo ago
[dead]
extraduder_ire 11mo ago
The first time I came across this document, someone was using it as an example how the c++ you write for an Arduino Uno is still c++ despite missing so many features.
msla 11mo ago
Interesting they're using C++ as opposed to Ada.
- WD-42 11mo ago
  The video goes into the history of why the military eventually accepted c++ instead of enforcing Ada.
- retox 11mo ago
  [dead]
raffael_de 11mo ago
Interesting font choice for the code snippets. I wonder if that's been chosen on a whim or if there is a reason for not going with mono space.
- throwaway2037 11mo ago
  The font used for code samples looks nearly the same as "The C++ Programming Languages" (3rd edition / "Wave") by Bjarne Stroustrup. Looking back, yeah, I guess it was weird that he used italic variable width text for code samples, but uses tab stops to align the comments!
shepherdjerred 11mo ago
I wonder if they use static analysis to enforce these rules, or if developers are expected to just know all of this
- ibejoeb 11mo ago
  static analysis
- jjmarr 11mo ago
  "shall" recommendations are statically analyzed, "will" are not.
genewitch 11mo ago
In general, are these good recommendations for building software for embedded or lower-spec devices? I don't know how to do preprocessor macros anyhow, for instance - so as i am reading this i am like "yeah, i agree..." until the no stdio.h!
- GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
  stdio.h is not what you would use in safe code.
  - fragmede 11mo ago
    do they use f35io.h?
    - whaleofatw2022 11mo ago
      Afair they use a lot of stuff related to the Green Hills toolchain.
    - ecshafer 11mo ago
      Depends. You use vendor specific libraries for hard real time systems, or in house libraries, or roll your own functions.
- dmoy 11mo ago
  Embedded more so than just lower-spec devices. Depends on the domain too. stdio.h is fine in some embedded contexts, and very very not fine in others
Animats 11mo ago
As is common in hard real time code, there is no dynamic allocation during operation: allocation/deallocation from/to the free store (heap) shall not occur after initialization. This works fine when the problem is roughly constant, as it was in, say, 2005. But what do things look like in modern AI-guided drones?
- csmantle 11mo ago
  "AI" comes in various flavors. It could be a expert system, a decision forest, a CNN, a Transformer, etc. In most inference scenarios the model is fixed, the input/output shapes are pre-defined and actions are prescribed. So it's not that dynamic after all.
  - vlovich123 11mo ago
    This is also true of LLMs. I’m really not sure of OP’s point - AI (really all ML) generally is like the canonical “trivial to preallocate” problem. Where dynamic allocation starts to be really helpful is if you want to minimize your peak RAM usage for coexistence purposes (eg you have other processes running) or want to undersize your physical RAM requirements by leveraging temporal differences between different parts of code (ie components A and B never use memory simultaneously so either A or B can reuse the same RAM). It also does simplify some algorithms and also if you’re ever dealing with variable length inputs then it can help you not have to reason about maximums at design time (provided you just correctly handle an allocations failure).
- jandrewrogers 11mo ago
  Why would the modern environment materially change this? The initialized resource allocation reflects the limitations of the hardware. That budget is what it is. I can't think of anything about "modern AI-guided drones" that would change the fundamental mechanics. Some systems support very elastic and dynamic workloads under fixed allocation constraints.
  - Animats 11mo ago
    Basic flight control is a fixed-sized problem. More military aircraft systems now on what the environment and enemy are doing.

tgv 11mo ago

From quickly glancing over a couple of pages, that looks sensible. Which makes me curious to see some exceptions to the "shall" rules. With a project of this size, that should give some idea about the usefulness of such standards.

OhNoNotAgain_99 11mo ago

[dead]

extraduder_ire 11mo ago

The first time I came across this document, someone was using it as an example how the c++ you write for an Arduino Uno is still c++ despite missing so many features.

msla 11mo ago

Interesting they're using C++ as opposed to Ada.

WD-42 11mo ago
The video goes into the history of why the military eventually accepted c++ instead of enforcing Ada.
retox 11mo ago
[dead]

raffael_de 11mo ago

Interesting font choice for the code snippets. I wonder if that's been chosen on a whim or if there is a reason for not going with mono space.

throwaway2037 11mo ago
The font used for code samples looks nearly the same as "The C++ Programming Languages" (3rd edition / "Wave") by Bjarne Stroustrup. Looking back, yeah, I guess it was weird that he used italic variable width text for code samples, but uses tab stops to align the comments!

shepherdjerred 11mo ago

I wonder if they use static analysis to enforce these rules, or if developers are expected to just know all of this

ibejoeb 11mo ago
static analysis
jjmarr 11mo ago
"shall" recommendations are statically analyzed, "will" are not.

genewitch 11mo ago

In general, are these good recommendations for building software for embedded or lower-spec devices? I don't know how to do preprocessor macros anyhow, for instance - so as i am reading this i am like "yeah, i agree..." until the no stdio.h!

GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
stdio.h is not what you would use in safe code.
- fragmede 11mo ago
  do they use f35io.h?
  - whaleofatw2022 11mo ago
    Afair they use a lot of stuff related to the Green Hills toolchain.
  - ecshafer 11mo ago
    Depends. You use vendor specific libraries for hard real time systems, or in house libraries, or roll your own functions.
dmoy 11mo ago
Embedded more so than just lower-spec devices. Depends on the domain too. stdio.h is fine in some embedded contexts, and very very not fine in others

Animats 11mo ago

As is common in hard real time code, there is no dynamic allocation during operation: allocation/deallocation from/to the free store (heap) shall not occur after initialization. This works fine when the problem is roughly constant, as it was in, say, 2005. But what do things look like in modern AI-guided drones?

csmantle 11mo ago
"AI" comes in various flavors. It could be a expert system, a decision forest, a CNN, a Transformer, etc. In most inference scenarios the model is fixed, the input/output shapes are pre-defined and actions are prescribed. So it's not that dynamic after all.
- vlovich123 11mo ago
  This is also true of LLMs. I’m really not sure of OP’s point - AI (really all ML) generally is like the canonical “trivial to preallocate” problem. Where dynamic allocation starts to be really helpful is if you want to minimize your peak RAM usage for coexistence purposes (eg you have other processes running) or want to undersize your physical RAM requirements by leveraging temporal differences between different parts of code (ie components A and B never use memory simultaneously so either A or B can reuse the same RAM). It also does simplify some algorithms and also if you’re ever dealing with variable length inputs then it can help you not have to reason about maximums at design time (provided you just correctly handle an allocations failure).
jandrewrogers 11mo ago
Why would the modern environment materially change this? The initialized resource allocation reflects the limitations of the hardware. That budget is what it is. I can't think of anything about "modern AI-guided drones" that would change the fundamental mechanics. Some systems support very elastic and dynamic workloads under fixed allocation constraints.
- Animats 11mo ago
  Basic flight control is a fixed-sized problem. More military aircraft systems now on what the environment and enemy are doing.