4 ms·

I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. I do

by nicbou 11mo ago

I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. I don't think that the social situation is as bad as you describe. I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

sunshine-o 11mo ago
> I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany. Yes this what I am sincerely wondering: which group (however you want to define it) of relatively young people, do they believe they can leverage "to put their life on the line for Germany"?
- jasonvorhe 11mo ago
  By drowning the economy in crisises (energy costs, inflation, immigration, various climate taxes for industries, road tolls) while ramping up billions for military expenses. A stealthy way of shifting to a military industry. The Bundeswehr spent a lot of money on advertising over the last 6-7 years.
  - seec 11mo ago
    It feels like a repeat of a situation that wasn't that long ago.
- Nextgrid 11mo ago
  You'd have better success getting people to fight for your cause when you provide them something of value they can't get elsewhere. When what people get (using their labor to subsidize politicians & boomers via taxes & rent) is the same thing they can get in effectively any country or even under the invader's rule, the incentives to fight said invader become quite scarce. This isn't even specific to Germany; a lot of people are fleeing conscription on both sides of the current conflict for the same reason - they just don't get enough benefit to make it worth putting their life on the line.
- arw0n 11mo ago
  The plan currently involves a net salary of around 2k€/month, which is quite a lot for people fresh out of school.
hilios 11mo ago
I think people generally aren't keen on putting their life on the line for anything. But even if this was a mandatory conscription, there is still the constitutional right of conscientious objection.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
jijijijij 11mo ago
> I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. First world problems... You will always be able to object military service, it's not difficult at all and absolutely won't be any time soon. I have a hard time imagining you to be forced to do alternative service. In case of actual war, when mobilization becomes a reality, well... your origin country will likely be involved too.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
speedbird 11mo ago
I think if you want the benefits of living in a country then you should be willing to defend it. This attitude of entitlement without responsibility is exactly what gives migrants a bad name.
- nicbou 11mo ago
  I'm not getting any benefits. I was raised and educated elsewhere. I have no access to most social services. I have no kids. I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back. The services I've been getting were really nothing to write home about. Ever since I moved here, the law made it very clear that this was a transactional relationship. That cuts both ways. I uphold German values in my everyday behaviour. Killing for Germany was never on the table.
  - speedbird 11mo ago
    So why are you there then?
  - throwaway6734 11mo ago
    > I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back I find this point of view to be profoundly sad and I hope it’s not shared by the majority of immigrants to germany
    - jasonvorhe 11mo ago
      Not just immigrants, most Germans pay taxes for very little in return while bureaucracy keeps growing.
      - arw0n 11mo ago
        You are getting downvoted, but it is true that young people are getting a very rough deal, and a lot of the people in my circle are looking to emgirate. Friends from other countries and students (mostly know them through academia), are also not looking for long-term opportunities here anymore, which was different 15 years ago. I would be far less annoyed with paying very high taxes and social contributions (around 50% of my income), if the services provided worked. But this just hasn't been the case for me. The healthcare system is close to breaking apart, and after moving to a new city 6 months ago I have been unable to find doctors willing to take me in. Childcare is constantly closing down due to staff shortages, buying a house is unrealistic unless both partners have good jobs or you inherit, and the jobs market is incredibly rigid and inflexible. Every single one of these points are worse for young people then for older ones, and the only thing the government seems to get done is giving weapons training to young people and gifting pensioners 180b$/year extra.

by nicbou 11mo ago

sunshine-o 11mo ago

> I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany. Yes this what I am sincerely wondering: which group (however you want to define it) of relatively young people, do they believe they can leverage "to put their life on the line for Germany"?

jasonvorhe 11mo ago
By drowning the economy in crisises (energy costs, inflation, immigration, various climate taxes for industries, road tolls) while ramping up billions for military expenses. A stealthy way of shifting to a military industry. The Bundeswehr spent a lot of money on advertising over the last 6-7 years.
- seec 11mo ago
  It feels like a repeat of a situation that wasn't that long ago.
Nextgrid 11mo ago
You'd have better success getting people to fight for your cause when you provide them something of value they can't get elsewhere. When what people get (using their labor to subsidize politicians & boomers via taxes & rent) is the same thing they can get in effectively any country or even under the invader's rule, the incentives to fight said invader become quite scarce. This isn't even specific to Germany; a lot of people are fleeing conscription on both sides of the current conflict for the same reason - they just don't get enough benefit to make it worth putting their life on the line.
arw0n 11mo ago
The plan currently involves a net salary of around 2k€/month, which is quite a lot for people fresh out of school.

hilios 11mo ago

I think people generally aren't keen on putting their life on the line for anything. But even if this was a mandatory conscription, there is still the constitutional right of conscientious objection.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

jijijijij 11mo ago

> I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. First world problems... You will always be able to object military service, it's not difficult at all and absolutely won't be any time soon. I have a hard time imagining you to be forced to do alternative service. In case of actual war, when mobilization becomes a reality, well... your origin country will likely be involved too.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

speedbird 11mo ago

I think if you want the benefits of living in a country then you should be willing to defend it. This attitude of entitlement without responsibility is exactly what gives migrants a bad name.

nicbou 11mo ago
I'm not getting any benefits. I was raised and educated elsewhere. I have no access to most social services. I have no kids. I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back. The services I've been getting were really nothing to write home about. Ever since I moved here, the law made it very clear that this was a transactional relationship. That cuts both ways. I uphold German values in my everyday behaviour. Killing for Germany was never on the table.
- speedbird 11mo ago
  So why are you there then?
- throwaway6734 11mo ago
  > I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back I find this point of view to be profoundly sad and I hope it’s not shared by the majority of immigrants to germany
  - jasonvorhe 11mo ago
    Not just immigrants, most Germans pay taxes for very little in return while bureaucracy keeps growing.
    - arw0n 11mo ago
      You are getting downvoted, but it is true that young people are getting a very rough deal, and a lot of the people in my circle are looking to emgirate. Friends from other countries and students (mostly know them through academia), are also not looking for long-term opportunities here anymore, which was different 15 years ago. I would be far less annoyed with paying very high taxes and social contributions (around 50% of my income), if the services provided worked. But this just hasn't been the case for me. The healthcare system is close to breaking apart, and after moving to a new city 6 months ago I have been unable to find doctors willing to take me in. Childcare is constantly closing down due to staff shortages, buying a house is unrealistic unless both partners have good jobs or you inherit, and the jobs market is incredibly rigid and inflexible. Every single one of these points are worse for young people then for older ones, and the only thing the government seems to get done is giving weapons training to young people and gifting pensioners 180b$/year extra.