4 ms·

> Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. Even China doesn't quite manage to enforce that.

by olalonde 11mo ago

latexr 11mo ago
It’s a mistake to think you need to get everyone perfectly all the time to be effective. Stopping businesses from operating legally and having your population afraid of committing a crime does a lot of work by itself. It’s only techies who think “if I can get around it, it’s not that big of a deal”. As long as you live in a society, how other people behave affects what you can do too.
- ben_w 11mo ago
  Yes, and more. Even those who are happy to break laws, don't generally do so perfectly. Even nation states' pulling James Bond stunts don't do it perfectly. Imperfect enforcement used to be the default even for petty crimes, before CCTV and finger prints and DNA tests and all the other forensics got cheap. The legal systems don't care if the methods are imperfect… and worse, they don't understand why we do, making it hard to explain to them the consequences of this kind of thing in our domain.
xzjis 11mo ago
VPNs can never be completely banned because they're a tool used by businesses (nothing is more important than a business in neoliberal capitalism).
- zorked 11mo ago
  You can create the concept of a legal VPN (tracking inside the tunnel) and keep that legal, though. Businesses will not mind.
3rodents 11mo ago
The western view of China’s Internet censorship often flies in the face of reality. A lot of people seem to think China has an impenetrable firewall. Bypassing internet restrictions in mainland China is a normal part of life for people who want to access the western internet. China is able to censor the Internet effectively because Chinese people are most comfortable using apps that cater directly to Chinese people, through language and culture. The Chinese government has a lot of control over these companies because they’re based are located in China. The English speaking west is so dependent on the U.S. internet that it is impossible to copy the Chinese model.

> Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. Even China doesn't quite manage to enforce that.

latexr 11mo ago

It’s a mistake to think you need to get everyone perfectly all the time to be effective. Stopping businesses from operating legally and having your population afraid of committing a crime does a lot of work by itself. It’s only techies who think “if I can get around it, it’s not that big of a deal”. As long as you live in a society, how other people behave affects what you can do too.

ben_w 11mo ago
Yes, and more. Even those who are happy to break laws, don't generally do so perfectly. Even nation states' pulling James Bond stunts don't do it perfectly. Imperfect enforcement used to be the default even for petty crimes, before CCTV and finger prints and DNA tests and all the other forensics got cheap. The legal systems don't care if the methods are imperfect… and worse, they don't understand why we do, making it hard to explain to them the consequences of this kind of thing in our domain.

xzjis 11mo ago

VPNs can never be completely banned because they're a tool used by businesses (nothing is more important than a business in neoliberal capitalism).

zorked 11mo ago
You can create the concept of a legal VPN (tracking inside the tunnel) and keep that legal, though. Businesses will not mind.

3rodents 11mo ago

The western view of China’s Internet censorship often flies in the face of reality. A lot of people seem to think China has an impenetrable firewall. Bypassing internet restrictions in mainland China is a normal part of life for people who want to access the western internet. China is able to censor the Internet effectively because Chinese people are most comfortable using apps that cater directly to Chinese people, through language and culture. The Chinese government has a lot of control over these companies because they’re based are located in China. The English speaking west is so dependent on the U.S. internet that it is impossible to copy the Chinese model.