5 ms·

Yadea is coming to the Western market

52 points by breve 11mo ago

sema4hacker 11mo ago
This is two-wheelers, not cars.
- bluGill 11mo ago
  Motorcycles. Or perhaps scooters - they are form we rarely see in the US so I'm not sure exactly what to call them.
  - toast0 11mo ago
    I usually call the scooter ones mopeds, even though they lack pedals. Or sometimes Vespas, even when they're not made by Piaggio.
  - hamdingers 11mo ago
    The US, broadly speaking, does not make a distinction between step-over and step-through two wheeled motor vehicles in any category. Again, broadly speaking, over 30mph is a motorcycle, under 30mph is a moped (unless it's an ebike with pedal assist, but only in some states). It's complicated. You used to see a lot of scooters (step-through motorcycles or mopeds) in California college towns but ebikes have decimated that market.
  - Sevii 11mo ago
    It's a lot more reasonable to use a motorcycle or scooter as your main form of transport when the max speed you are likely to encounter on the roads is 40MPH. In the US you will be sharing freeways with people going 80+MPH in SUVs daily.
    - orbital-decay 11mo ago
      As someone who always avoids four-wheeled cages if possible, I can say highways are more or less safe if you have a fast enough motorcycle, compared to slow lane filtering with big vehicles on the road. Tiny spaces, poor visibility, and things that crush you on a slighest mistake is a dangerous combination. If you look at the "motorcycling countries" (SEA, India/Pakistan, Africa, Latin America, etc.), most terrible accidents happen because trucks share the road with an army of scooters. I've been to a few of them on a motorcycle and it's a nightmare. For the same reason, big cities in China introduced dedicated scooter lanes separated by concrete barriers.
  - alistairSH 11mo ago
    Legally, they’re all motorcycle. Unless they’re mopeds (50cc, speed limited). But colloquially, if it’s a step-through, it’s called a scooter. Most of which have a CVT transmission, where most motorcycles have a 6-speed manual (toe shift) transmission.
rgreekguy 11mo ago
I would swear that, at least the "e-mopeds", are being already imported down here...
watermelon0 11mo ago
https://archive.md/otude https://archive.md/otude
imglorp 11mo ago
The US desperately needs some competition in the EV motorcycle space. There are several players but they still seem boutique and and way over what the price should be.
- johnnyanmac 11mo ago
  The US would rather pay off to tarriffs the competition than properly compete. Even the Ford CEO drove A Chinese EV for 6 months and he didn't want to give it up. Also indirectly he didn't think Ford could compete, calling it an "existential threat" https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-electric-vehicles-ev-2024-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-... It's really stupid because Xiaomi isn't making anything truly revolutionary. It's just a lot of consumer thoughtful ideas, not ones that try to shove ads and subscriptions in your dang car. And this is our "existential threat" to a century of manufacturing. Wonder how Henry would feel. (and the tarriffs stuff isn't just 2025. That's been there through all of Biden's admin. Good idea... If they used those 5 years to actually ramp up production).
  - imglorp 11mo ago
    Full agree on these auto maker comments. The US makers for decades have dug in their heels on any new features: look how long it took to get basic safety features like seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones. Then delay wipers. Then it took decades to add a $1 part like an aux input for the stereo. And of course all the super poor EV gestures. But I was talking about motorcycles. There are some new brands like Zero and some old ones like Harley (the "live wire" disaster). They need a fire lit to make real bikes at real prices.
    - mmooss 11mo ago
      It's not a characteristic of US automakers but of the status quo in any competition. The status quo power wants to keep things the same - that's how they got there, that's how they are making money, and any change destabilizes things and 'wastes' money: you're already (selling cars), what will you gain by innovating? The revisionist power wants to become status quo. They need to beat the status quo power and they won't do it following the status quo's rulebook. They look for anything that might differentiate them, make them appealing to even narrow groups - they are trying to get a foothold and grow from there. They are cool, innovative, and disruptive, people think. As soon as the revisionist becomes status quo, they adopt the status quo behaviors. Look at formerly revisionist SV.
testing22321 11mo ago
Fingers crossed we’ll get some more EV cars too. More competition is always good for consumers.
tigranbs 11mo ago
EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostly deliveries because cities are built for them.
- HPsquared 11mo ago
  For many it's about traffic and parking. At least for the moped / scooter riders.
  - nickthegreek 11mo ago
    One the primary reasons I have a vespa is that in my big city you are allowed to park them for free on the sidewalk as long as you are not blocking the main flow of traffic. Never having to worry about parking gets me out and about when I never would have due to the headache before. It is so convenient and the gas mileage is nuts.
- inerte 11mo ago
  In Brazil it's for deliveries but also to avoid traffic, and a cheaper way to get around in more remote areas (people traded their horses for motorcycles!). Only rich people buy motorcycles because it's fun.
- baseballdork 11mo ago
  Are they faster? I guess at some point it comes down to gearing, but a liter bike is hitting 300km/h and has more than enough torque to loop you from standing still. I'm not sure what an electric motor adds here for hobbyists or speed demons.
  - Retric 11mo ago
    ICE engines lose power when changing gears, so they aren’t strictly grip limited.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
xnx 11mo ago
"Western market" does not (yet) mean United States in this case. By that definition BYD is already in the "Western market".
ElijahLynn 11mo ago
> So far, there’s no word on a potential US entry.
yanhangyhy 11mo ago
When I was traveling in UAE, I was shocked to see some people actually using bicycles for food delivery. In China, electric motorcycle support the extremely large food delivery market, and in most cities, the streets are lined with delivery riders’ e-motorcycle and bicycles. Later, I heard that China’s Meituan has also started food delivery services in Dubai. I expect this model to expand to global markets as electric motorcycle become more widespread.
- logicchains 11mo ago
  >When I was traveling in UAE, I was shocked to see some people actually using bicycles for food delivery. Many of those delivery workers are much poorer than even Chinese delivery workers, so are less able to afford ebikes. Because they come from countries with significantly lower GDP per capita than China.
  - yanhangyhy 11mo ago
    Indeed. I’ve noticed a large number of Pakistani taxi drivers and Southeast Asian service workers. But considering the income of food delivery riders(most of the time > avg salary in the city china. not sure in UAE, but the service like Uber is pretty expensive), buying a not-too-expensive electric scooter seems to be a fairly good investment.
  - irjustin 11mo ago
    > so are less able to afford ebikes Many countries with gig economies where the individual can't afford to own the actual method of transport, a rental market pops up to enable people to be able fulfill orders. This usually does mean they're the first ones to get squeezed. But lesser known who gets squeezed is the rental operator/provider as well. Because many times they don't own their own fleet. They can't charge higher prices like normal car rentals and own the fleet because the individual gig driver is very price sensitive. It doesn't take too many vehicle losses to really upset the delicate math. It's just rentals all the way down.
  - arjie 11mo ago
    In San Francisco, I noticed that many of the delivery drivers' e-bikes and e-scooters were labeled HMP. The natural structure for these is that you rent the bike from the provider and you keep net earnings post rent. And sure enough, when I came home and Googled there is precisely such a structure: https://www.hmpbikes.com/pages/rental-page https://www.hmpbikes.com/pages/rental-page
drnick1 11mo ago
Really not keen on the advertised "app-based anti-theft, vehicle movement alert, geo-fencing, GPS tracking." Inevitably, this will be used to track the user and sell the data to insurance companies, like car manufacturers already do. Also, it's entirely possible that the app won't work at all on free Android builds (dependencies on Google libraries). Other than the obvious range anxiety problem (80 miles just isn't enough especially if you ride it hard and that becomes 50 or less), I wouldn't buy any "connected" bike without knowing for sure that it can be fully disconnected by nuking the onboard modem.
- M95D 11mo ago
  And if you drop your phone, you walk back home.
ojhughes 11mo ago
EV motorbikes are already very popular with criminals in the UK. They make the perfect getaway vehicle as they are so quick and stealthy. It’s very intimidating to see a group riding these things on the pavement and pulling wheelies, all wearing balaclavas.
- pjc50 11mo ago
  These guys are a bit of a problem in Edinburgh, but not an EV-specific one; before they were using trail bikes, which were an additional nuisance with the noise. Not sure what level of intrusive surveillance would be needed to deal with this.

52 points by breve 11mo ago

sema4hacker 11mo ago

This is two-wheelers, not cars.

bluGill 11mo ago
Motorcycles. Or perhaps scooters - they are form we rarely see in the US so I'm not sure exactly what to call them.
- toast0 11mo ago
  I usually call the scooter ones mopeds, even though they lack pedals. Or sometimes Vespas, even when they're not made by Piaggio.
- hamdingers 11mo ago
  The US, broadly speaking, does not make a distinction between step-over and step-through two wheeled motor vehicles in any category. Again, broadly speaking, over 30mph is a motorcycle, under 30mph is a moped (unless it's an ebike with pedal assist, but only in some states). It's complicated. You used to see a lot of scooters (step-through motorcycles or mopeds) in California college towns but ebikes have decimated that market.
- Sevii 11mo ago
  It's a lot more reasonable to use a motorcycle or scooter as your main form of transport when the max speed you are likely to encounter on the roads is 40MPH. In the US you will be sharing freeways with people going 80+MPH in SUVs daily.
  - orbital-decay 11mo ago
    As someone who always avoids four-wheeled cages if possible, I can say highways are more or less safe if you have a fast enough motorcycle, compared to slow lane filtering with big vehicles on the road. Tiny spaces, poor visibility, and things that crush you on a slighest mistake is a dangerous combination. If you look at the "motorcycling countries" (SEA, India/Pakistan, Africa, Latin America, etc.), most terrible accidents happen because trucks share the road with an army of scooters. I've been to a few of them on a motorcycle and it's a nightmare. For the same reason, big cities in China introduced dedicated scooter lanes separated by concrete barriers.
- alistairSH 11mo ago
  Legally, they’re all motorcycle. Unless they’re mopeds (50cc, speed limited). But colloquially, if it’s a step-through, it’s called a scooter. Most of which have a CVT transmission, where most motorcycles have a 6-speed manual (toe shift) transmission.

rgreekguy 11mo ago

I would swear that, at least the "e-mopeds", are being already imported down here...

watermelon0 11mo ago

https://archive.md/otude https://archive.md/otude

imglorp 11mo ago

The US desperately needs some competition in the EV motorcycle space. There are several players but they still seem boutique and and way over what the price should be.

johnnyanmac 11mo ago
The US would rather pay off to tarriffs the competition than properly compete. Even the Ford CEO drove A Chinese EV for 6 months and he didn't want to give it up. Also indirectly he didn't think Ford could compete, calling it an "existential threat" https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-electric-vehicles-ev-2024-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-... It's really stupid because Xiaomi isn't making anything truly revolutionary. It's just a lot of consumer thoughtful ideas, not ones that try to shove ads and subscriptions in your dang car. And this is our "existential threat" to a century of manufacturing. Wonder how Henry would feel. (and the tarriffs stuff isn't just 2025. That's been there through all of Biden's admin. Good idea... If they used those 5 years to actually ramp up production).
- imglorp 11mo ago
  Full agree on these auto maker comments. The US makers for decades have dug in their heels on any new features: look how long it took to get basic safety features like seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones. Then delay wipers. Then it took decades to add a $1 part like an aux input for the stereo. And of course all the super poor EV gestures. But I was talking about motorcycles. There are some new brands like Zero and some old ones like Harley (the "live wire" disaster). They need a fire lit to make real bikes at real prices.
  - mmooss 11mo ago
    It's not a characteristic of US automakers but of the status quo in any competition. The status quo power wants to keep things the same - that's how they got there, that's how they are making money, and any change destabilizes things and 'wastes' money: you're already (selling cars), what will you gain by innovating? The revisionist power wants to become status quo. They need to beat the status quo power and they won't do it following the status quo's rulebook. They look for anything that might differentiate them, make them appealing to even narrow groups - they are trying to get a foothold and grow from there. They are cool, innovative, and disruptive, people think. As soon as the revisionist becomes status quo, they adopt the status quo behaviors. Look at formerly revisionist SV.

testing22321 11mo ago

Fingers crossed we’ll get some more EV cars too. More competition is always good for consumers.

tigranbs 11mo ago

EV motorcycles are a huge struggle! I have been riding motorcycles pretty much my whole adult life, but after trying electric bikes a few times while in the EU, I felt they were like toys. Honestly, how can you ride a motorcycle that sounds like a kitchen blender? FYI: I understand they are more efficient and faster, but a motorcycle is not about efficiency; it's more about a hobby, fun. In the EU market, it is mostly deliveries because cities are built for them.

HPsquared 11mo ago
For many it's about traffic and parking. At least for the moped / scooter riders.
- nickthegreek 11mo ago
  One the primary reasons I have a vespa is that in my big city you are allowed to park them for free on the sidewalk as long as you are not blocking the main flow of traffic. Never having to worry about parking gets me out and about when I never would have due to the headache before. It is so convenient and the gas mileage is nuts.
inerte 11mo ago
In Brazil it's for deliveries but also to avoid traffic, and a cheaper way to get around in more remote areas (people traded their horses for motorcycles!). Only rich people buy motorcycles because it's fun.
baseballdork 11mo ago
Are they faster? I guess at some point it comes down to gearing, but a liter bike is hitting 300km/h and has more than enough torque to loop you from standing still. I'm not sure what an electric motor adds here for hobbyists or speed demons.
- Retric 11mo ago
  ICE engines lose power when changing gears, so they aren’t strictly grip limited.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

xnx 11mo ago

"Western market" does not (yet) mean United States in this case. By that definition BYD is already in the "Western market".

ElijahLynn 11mo ago

> So far, there’s no word on a potential US entry.

yanhangyhy 11mo ago

When I was traveling in UAE, I was shocked to see some people actually using bicycles for food delivery. In China, electric motorcycle support the extremely large food delivery market, and in most cities, the streets are lined with delivery riders’ e-motorcycle and bicycles. Later, I heard that China’s Meituan has also started food delivery services in Dubai. I expect this model to expand to global markets as electric motorcycle become more widespread.

logicchains 11mo ago
>When I was traveling in UAE, I was shocked to see some people actually using bicycles for food delivery. Many of those delivery workers are much poorer than even Chinese delivery workers, so are less able to afford ebikes. Because they come from countries with significantly lower GDP per capita than China.
- yanhangyhy 11mo ago
  Indeed. I’ve noticed a large number of Pakistani taxi drivers and Southeast Asian service workers. But considering the income of food delivery riders(most of the time > avg salary in the city china. not sure in UAE, but the service like Uber is pretty expensive), buying a not-too-expensive electric scooter seems to be a fairly good investment.
- irjustin 11mo ago
  > so are less able to afford ebikes Many countries with gig economies where the individual can't afford to own the actual method of transport, a rental market pops up to enable people to be able fulfill orders. This usually does mean they're the first ones to get squeezed. But lesser known who gets squeezed is the rental operator/provider as well. Because many times they don't own their own fleet. They can't charge higher prices like normal car rentals and own the fleet because the individual gig driver is very price sensitive. It doesn't take too many vehicle losses to really upset the delicate math. It's just rentals all the way down.
- arjie 11mo ago
  In San Francisco, I noticed that many of the delivery drivers' e-bikes and e-scooters were labeled HMP. The natural structure for these is that you rent the bike from the provider and you keep net earnings post rent. And sure enough, when I came home and Googled there is precisely such a structure: https://www.hmpbikes.com/pages/rental-page https://www.hmpbikes.com/pages/rental-page

drnick1 11mo ago

Really not keen on the advertised "app-based anti-theft, vehicle movement alert, geo-fencing, GPS tracking." Inevitably, this will be used to track the user and sell the data to insurance companies, like car manufacturers already do. Also, it's entirely possible that the app won't work at all on free Android builds (dependencies on Google libraries). Other than the obvious range anxiety problem (80 miles just isn't enough especially if you ride it hard and that becomes 50 or less), I wouldn't buy any "connected" bike without knowing for sure that it can be fully disconnected by nuking the onboard modem.

M95D 11mo ago
And if you drop your phone, you walk back home.

ojhughes 11mo ago

EV motorbikes are already very popular with criminals in the UK. They make the perfect getaway vehicle as they are so quick and stealthy. It’s very intimidating to see a group riding these things on the pavement and pulling wheelies, all wearing balaclavas.

pjc50 11mo ago
These guys are a bit of a problem in Edinburgh, but not an EV-specific one; before they were using trail bikes, which were an additional nuisance with the noise. Not sure what level of intrusive surveillance would be needed to deal with this.