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Hyperliquid and similar exchanges aren't decentralized. That is their long term goal but they are very far from achieving it. The few actual decentralized exch

by Maxatar 10mo ago

Hyperliquid and similar exchanges aren't decentralized. That is their long term goal but they are very far from achieving it. The few actual decentralized exchanges are too slow and expensive.

awesome_dude 10mo ago
I mean, as soon as synchronisation is required in any system, block chain, distributed SAAS, even Peer to Peer sharing, decentralisation fails hard That's one of the sticking points I have with the /idea/ of the technology
- immibis 10mo ago
  Ethereum and similar chains run arbitrary computation on-chain. You can make a futures exchange on Ethereum (or Solana, etc). However, the fees for doing so are very large, and confirmation times are very long, like any other on-chain transaction.
  - awesome_dude 10mo ago
    What I am loving about this comment, and the downvotes, is the idea that blockchains can escape things like basic laws of the universe. > confirmation times are very long, like any other on-chain transaction Yes. synchronisation is where everything breaks down because you have to get everyone to agree to the new state. edit: Sorry, not everyone, but a consensus, and that consensus is then what everyone agrees is the state.
gametorch 10mo ago
> HyperCore includes fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books. Every order, cancel, trade, and liquidation happens transparently with one-block finality inherited from HyperBFT. HyperCore currently supports 200k orders / second, with throughput constantly improving as the node software is further optimized. Key part: > fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books
- Saline9515 10mo ago
  Being on a blockchain and being decentralized are two different things. The HyperCore client isn't even open source.
  - gametorch 10mo ago
    That's just patently false. > Importantly, HyperCore does not rely on the crutch of off-chain order books. A core design principle is full decentralization with one consistent order of transactions achieved through HyperBFT consensus.
    - Saline9515 10mo ago
      The basis of decentralized software is open-source. Otherwise a centralized authority can just push an update to, for instance, blacklist addresses. https://github.com/hyperliquid-dex/node https://github.com/hyperliquid-dex/node "For lowest latency, run the node in Tokyo, Japan." Decentralization means to run all of the closed-source nodes in the same AWS datacenter!
      - monokh 10mo ago
        And in fact they did just this when their vaults started bleeding money on an unfavourable position (JellyJelly). They handed out a closed source binary and the validators ran it immediately, closing out the market at an arbitrary price.
      - trhway 10mo ago
        The basis of decentralized software is open protocol. Then it doesn't matter that somebody runs closed source while somebody runs open source.
    - arccy 10mo ago
      as an operator you don't even get the real validator / node binary directly, nor can you control which version to run. all you can do is run their visor, and they push out whatever proprietary blob they produce and restart "your" nodes at their command.
miohtama 10mo ago
There are some exchanges that are more decentralised (and older) than Hyperliquid. Hyperliquid, while being the most popular one, is not the only horse in the town. E.g. GMX on Arbitrum chain is no longer prohibitively expensive. Left some comments here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46172450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46172450

by Maxatar 10mo ago

Hyperliquid and similar exchanges aren't decentralized. That is their long term goal but they are very far from achieving it. The few actual decentralized exchanges are too slow and expensive.

awesome_dude 10mo ago

I mean, as soon as synchronisation is required in any system, block chain, distributed SAAS, even Peer to Peer sharing, decentralisation fails hard That's one of the sticking points I have with the /idea/ of the technology

immibis 10mo ago
Ethereum and similar chains run arbitrary computation on-chain. You can make a futures exchange on Ethereum (or Solana, etc). However, the fees for doing so are very large, and confirmation times are very long, like any other on-chain transaction.
- awesome_dude 10mo ago
  What I am loving about this comment, and the downvotes, is the idea that blockchains can escape things like basic laws of the universe. > confirmation times are very long, like any other on-chain transaction Yes. synchronisation is where everything breaks down because you have to get everyone to agree to the new state. edit: Sorry, not everyone, but a consensus, and that consensus is then what everyone agrees is the state.

gametorch 10mo ago

> HyperCore includes fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books. Every order, cancel, trade, and liquidation happens transparently with one-block finality inherited from HyperBFT. HyperCore currently supports 200k orders / second, with throughput constantly improving as the node software is further optimized. Key part: > fully onchain perpetual futures and spot order books

Saline9515 10mo ago
Being on a blockchain and being decentralized are two different things. The HyperCore client isn't even open source.
- gametorch 10mo ago
  That's just patently false. > Importantly, HyperCore does not rely on the crutch of off-chain order books. A core design principle is full decentralization with one consistent order of transactions achieved through HyperBFT consensus.
  - Saline9515 10mo ago
    The basis of decentralized software is open-source. Otherwise a centralized authority can just push an update to, for instance, blacklist addresses. https://github.com/hyperliquid-dex/node https://github.com/hyperliquid-dex/node "For lowest latency, run the node in Tokyo, Japan." Decentralization means to run all of the closed-source nodes in the same AWS datacenter!
    - monokh 10mo ago
      And in fact they did just this when their vaults started bleeding money on an unfavourable position (JellyJelly). They handed out a closed source binary and the validators ran it immediately, closing out the market at an arbitrary price.
    - trhway 10mo ago
      The basis of decentralized software is open protocol. Then it doesn't matter that somebody runs closed source while somebody runs open source.
  - arccy 10mo ago
    as an operator you don't even get the real validator / node binary directly, nor can you control which version to run. all you can do is run their visor, and they push out whatever proprietary blob they produce and restart "your" nodes at their command.

miohtama 10mo ago

There are some exchanges that are more decentralised (and older) than Hyperliquid. Hyperliquid, while being the most popular one, is not the only horse in the town. E.g. GMX on Arbitrum chain is no longer prohibitively expensive. Left some comments here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46172450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46172450