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Injecting a dummy payload into an eccentric helicentric orbit which periodically crosses' Mars' orbit /= a Mars mission. The complexity and relevance to future

Injecting a dummy payload into an eccentric helicentric orbit which periodically crosses' Mars' orbit /= a Mars mission. The complexity and relevance to future human presence on Mars isn't close (Though tbf the choice of launch vehicle isn't that relevant to whether the ESCAPADE mission succeeds, and missions involving Mars flybys like Hera which are lot more serious than the Tesla one have been launched on SpaceX rockets)

wat10000 11mo ago
If injecting a payload into an eccentric heliocentric orbit doesn't count, then why does injecting a payload into MEO count, just because that payload is then capable of getting to Mars from there? BO didn't launch it to Mars, they launched it to orbit, and ESCAPADE is now getting itself to Mars.
- notahacker 11mo ago
  Because ESCAPADE is a mission to Mars which will orbit Mars and send back data from Mars and the dummy payload released by the Falcon Heavy test launch as a fun little meme which orbits the sun millions of miles from Mars isn't (It'd be easier to claim the SpaceX-launched deep space missions getting Mars gravity assists as Mars missions, at least those missions have actual success criteria related to Mars proximity and might take some photos on the way past). A Mars mission is more of a Mars mission than launching something which isn't on a mission and doesn't go to Mars isn't very difficult to understand, unless you're actively trying not to. I'd already pointed out that the choice of launch vehicle is largely irrelevant to ESCAPADE's success; no shit they've got their own propulsion. The roadster would have needed it (and a suitable launch window or funky itinerary) to actually get to Mars too. I don't think it's crazy that despite having the engineers and cash to have got to Mars already SpaceX are being beaten by a payload built by one of their newspace contemporaries and launched by another, but a certain SpaceX chap does keep insisting that Mars is the all important destination.
  - wat10000 11mo ago
    If the choice of launch vehicle is largely irrelevant then how does this make any sense? We’re talking about the launch companies. The claim was “Blue Origin has beat SpaceX to Mars.” But they did no such thing. BO launched a payload into Earth orbit. They have nothing to do with where it goes from there. SpaceX didn’t get to Mars either but at least they were the ones who actually got the Roadster into heliocentric orbit.
    - notahacker 11mo ago
      The OP made the point (amongst many more dubious claims) that SpaceX was one of the few established launch providers that hadn't sent a payload to Mars. This is true (it says more about Mars not actually being a priority for SpaceX than it does about their technical capability, but that in itself is interesting). Another person suggested that we should count the Tesla roadster as a Mars mission; I pointed out that it shouldn't count as a Mars mission because it wasn't a Mars mission (and injecting a meme into a random deep space orbit isn't a more impressive display of technical prowess than deploying an actual mission payload to an L2 staging orbit; the whole point of the Roadster stunt was they didn't particularly care if the payload survived never mind where it ended up). It's not rocket science! Most stuff a Falcon 9 launches reaches its final orbit with its own propulsion; it still gets credited with the launch.
      - vardump 11mo ago
        Pretty clear SpaceX could have sent something to Mars for about 10 years, had they so wanted.
        notahacker 11mo ago
        And also pretty clear that if Mars colonization was as imminent and important as an typical Elon comment on the subject suggests, they would have bothered with a probe by now...
      - wat10000 11mo ago

wat10000 11mo ago

If injecting a payload into an eccentric heliocentric orbit doesn't count, then why does injecting a payload into MEO count, just because that payload is then capable of getting to Mars from there? BO didn't launch it to Mars, they launched it to orbit, and ESCAPADE is now getting itself to Mars.

notahacker 11mo ago
Because ESCAPADE is a mission to Mars which will orbit Mars and send back data from Mars and the dummy payload released by the Falcon Heavy test launch as a fun little meme which orbits the sun millions of miles from Mars isn't (It'd be easier to claim the SpaceX-launched deep space missions getting Mars gravity assists as Mars missions, at least those missions have actual success criteria related to Mars proximity and might take some photos on the way past). A Mars mission is more of a Mars mission than launching something which isn't on a mission and doesn't go to Mars isn't very difficult to understand, unless you're actively trying not to. I'd already pointed out that the choice of launch vehicle is largely irrelevant to ESCAPADE's success; no shit they've got their own propulsion. The roadster would have needed it (and a suitable launch window or funky itinerary) to actually get to Mars too. I don't think it's crazy that despite having the engineers and cash to have got to Mars already SpaceX are being beaten by a payload built by one of their newspace contemporaries and launched by another, but a certain SpaceX chap does keep insisting that Mars is the all important destination.
- wat10000 11mo ago
  If the choice of launch vehicle is largely irrelevant then how does this make any sense? We’re talking about the launch companies. The claim was “Blue Origin has beat SpaceX to Mars.” But they did no such thing. BO launched a payload into Earth orbit. They have nothing to do with where it goes from there. SpaceX didn’t get to Mars either but at least they were the ones who actually got the Roadster into heliocentric orbit.
  - notahacker 11mo ago
    The OP made the point (amongst many more dubious claims) that SpaceX was one of the few established launch providers that hadn't sent a payload to Mars. This is true (it says more about Mars not actually being a priority for SpaceX than it does about their technical capability, but that in itself is interesting). Another person suggested that we should count the Tesla roadster as a Mars mission; I pointed out that it shouldn't count as a Mars mission because it wasn't a Mars mission (and injecting a meme into a random deep space orbit isn't a more impressive display of technical prowess than deploying an actual mission payload to an L2 staging orbit; the whole point of the Roadster stunt was they didn't particularly care if the payload survived never mind where it ended up). It's not rocket science! Most stuff a Falcon 9 launches reaches its final orbit with its own propulsion; it still gets credited with the launch.
    - vardump 11mo ago
      Pretty clear SpaceX could have sent something to Mars for about 10 years, had they so wanted.
      - notahacker 11mo ago
        And also pretty clear that if Mars colonization was as imminent and important as an typical Elon comment on the subject suggests, they would have bothered with a probe by now...
    - wat10000 11mo ago