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The effect of shingles vaccination at different stages of dementia
- jmward01 10mo agoGet vaccinated. Stay healthy. Science works.
- travisgriggs 10mo agoAnyone skilled in the medical arts got a dumbed down synopsis of this? (I just had my first shingles vaccine 2 weeks ago)
- jvanderbot 10mo agoI'm not skilled, but it feels like a validation for the virus theory of dementia https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/03/shingles-vaccination-dementia.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/03/shingles-vacc... "The remarkable findings, published April 2 in Nature, support an emerging theory that viruses that affect the nervous system can increase the risk of dementia. If further confirmed, the new findings suggest that a preventive intervention for dementia is already close at hand."
- inglor_cz 10mo agoA lot of things can cause dementia. IIRC, men who use Cialis have a lower risk of dementia, which indicates that better blood flow is beneficial as well. Our skulls are hard for a reason. Brains are sensitive.
- ortusdux 10mo agoThe original study had a sample size of 10. A follow-up study with n = 13,000 did not find a correlation. https://www.alzheimers.gov/news/no-association-viagra-and-cialis-reduced-alzheimers-disease-risk https://www.alzheimers.gov/news/no-association-viagra-and-ci...
- Mistletoe 10mo agoIsn’t it more accurate to say that people with pulmonary arterial hypertension had no dementia protection from viagra?
- _alternator_ 10mo agoI don’t think that there are many things known to have as strong of an effect as HZ vaccines. The current evidence is that the vaccine eliminates like 20% of all cases, suggesting that HZ (aka chickenpox) is directly responsible for at least 20% of dementia cases, possibly much more.
- btilly 10mo agoYes, many things can cause dementia. Repeated traumatic brain injuries can cause dementia. But the leading form of dementia is Alzheimer's. Somewhere in the order of 40% of us are expected to get Alzheimer's before we die. The list of things that have been demonstrated to cause Alzheimer's is much, much shorter. For the last 40 years, the leading theory about Alzheimer's is that it is caused by the beta-amyloid plaques that are found in the brain after death. This theory has produced exactly zero treatments that meaningfully affect clinical symptoms, despite many drug trial and literally billions in research per year. Seriously, between various sources, we've spent something like a quarter of what it cost to put man on the Moon. (It is hard to make a precise comparison, because a lot of that funding was private.) This single study represents more progress on effective treatments of Alzheimer's than all of that work combined. The importance of the result should not be dismissed.
- inglor_cz 10mo agoI didn't want to dismiss the results. Indeed, as you say, they are meaningfully better than everything that the amyloid theory was able to produce.
- DANmode 10mo agoOxygenation and infection-fighting. Top defense.
- shepardrtc 10mo agoTaking valacyclovir should help prevent or delay as well.
- red-iron-pine 10mo agoaye. is likely the reason Trump's hands are showing serious bruises and band-aids; regular treatments to keep him from losing it
- giardini 10mo agoI think the bruises are from pounding his desk in frustration. And WTF is wrong with wearing a Band-Aid? You're criticizing someone for wearing a f**ing Band-Aid!?* Are you nuts?! [pounds desk] Whassamattayou? Can't you stick to the point instead of talking about f**ing Band-Aids?*
- John7878781 10mo ago> But the first clinical trial to test that theory has found that a common antiviral for herpes simplex infections, valacyclovir, does not change the course of the disease for patients in the early stages of Alzheimer's. https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/antiviral-treatment-fails-slow-early-stage-alzheimers https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/antiviral-treatment-fail...
- shepardrtc 10mo agoYeah they looked at 120 people age 71 and above for that study. By that point its a little late.
- shadowgovt 10mo agoPerhaps worth noting because I'm not sure how many people realize it: Chickenpox is actually a neurological disease; that's how it re-emerges as shingles later in life. The virus infects nerve cells but (as far as we know) hides out in them without damaging them. Because nerves are critical to bodily function and don't regenerate nearly as efficiently as (for example) skin, liver, or other "sheet tissues" (tissue made of small cells is easier to regenerate; nerves can be as long as a meter and regeneration involves growing a new cell that entire distance), the body has a pile of immunosuppressant signals to prevent killing the nerve while trying to fight an infection. "Hey white blood cells: I know we hate chickenpox, but we hate not being able to swallow more, so maybe lay off the throat nerves, right?" ... but as a result, one doesn't generally purge the chickenpox infection after it occurs. Breakouts into other tissue are swiftly suppressed by our immune systems our whole lives (so swiftly that you don't get symptoms or become contagious), but as we age and the immune system weakens, a breakout can become a full infection and the result is shingles. ... and now, it seems that the "infects nerves without damaging them" hypothesis should be up for question.
- hannob 10mo agoIt looks like the shingles vaccine has positive effects that prevent dementia. (Well, that's in the title.) This study was possible due to a "natural experiment" where one country gave people from a very specific birth date the vaccine (so people born right before and right after that date were very similar, except for the vaccine). It's not clear why this is the case. It might be that the virus the vaccine supresses plays a role in dementia development, or it might be that the vaccine causes an immune response that has other indirect positive impacts.
- jibal 10mo agoStatistics show that in some populations there is less dementia among those who received the shingles vaccine than among those who didn't.
- busyant 10mo agoThis is probably a key sentence: "...the effect of actually receiving the HZ vaccination was a 3.1 (95% CI: 1.0–6.2, p = 0.007) percentage point reduction in new diagnoses of MCI over 9 years." MCI = mild cognitive impairment What's interesting to me is that the effect doesn't appear to be specific to Alzheimer's--rather they see a reduction in all forms of dementia diagnosis. I suspect the thinking is something along the lines of ... dementia is either caused or heavily influenced by inflammation. Reactivation of HZ virus causes neurological inflammation. So, HZ vaccination is gonna prevent some forms of inflammation and help you avoid dementia--a little bit. FWIW, I'm trained as a molecular biologist and have a some knowledge of clinical trials, dementia, etc., but I am far from an expert on this.
- _alternator_ 10mo agoThe highlights are a good start. (I’m a doctor, just a nerd who likes to read papers.) My comments in brackets. - Herpes zoster vaccination reduced dementia diagnosis in our prior natural experiments. [Previous work. I’m familiar with the Wales experiment where they had a sharp age cutoff for getting the vaccine in their national health system. Comparing those just below and just beyond the cutoff allows for analysis similar to a randomized controlled trial (aka ‘natural experiment’). The results showed a ~20% decrease in dementia due to vaccine, so the results were already pretty strong.] - Here, we find a lower occurrence of MCI and dementia deaths among dementia patients [MCI = ‘mild cognitive impairment’. This is a more refined result than prior work, harder to see in the data than a clear dementia diagnosis.] - Herpes zoster vaccination appears to act along the entire clinical course of dementia. [This is not surprising given the earlier results, but the demonstration is harder, and it may lead to recommendations for earlier HZ vaccination, IIRC currently at 50 or 55 in the US.] - This study’s approach avoids the common confounding concerns of observational data [Basically they are improving their methods and getting stronger results, classic good science.]
- jjtheblunt 10mo agoMonths ago when this research was showing up (not on HN) there was a disclaimer that the benefit differed for Shingrix vs Zostavax (discontinued in the United States around 2017), and that Zostavax was shown to cause these benefits (Wales study for example). Shingrix had a potential side effect of Guillain-Barre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome#Vaccine_onset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome#Vaccin... It's interesting that the linked article references, in different terms, the distinction, obliquely. Zostavax is attentuated; Shingrix recombinant. "Our findings suggest that live-attenuated HZ vaccination prevents or delays mild cognitive impairment and dementia and slows the disease course among those already living with dementia."
- botro 10mo agoIs it known or suspected whether Shingrix offers the same benefits as Zostavax for dementia?
- hedora 10mo agoShingles attacks your nervous system. Avoiding shingles prevents it from damaging your brain, so it isn’t surprising the vaccine reduces dementia. There are multiple causes for dementia. If I read figure 2 right, the vaccine slightly reduces the chance of mild cognitive impairment, but cuts the chances of dying from dementia by about a third(!) Also interesting: The vaccine helps at different phases of disease progression. The simplest explanation is that dementia is due to cumulative damage, not a single event, and that getting shingles is a big hit. The vaccine probably prevents dementia in the same way staying out of planes makes you invulnerable to parachute failures.
- jtbayly 10mo agoA lot of dead BASE jumpers disagree...
- _alternator_ 10mo agoThe emerging evidence, taken together, shows a ~20% reduction in dementia over 7 years. So it’s actually pretty dramatic. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/03/shingles-vaccination-dementia.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/03/shingles-vacc...
- wdb 10mo agoWhat do they mean with 'dying from dementia'? As typically you don't die from dementia but something like pneumonia or something else. Personally, I wouldn't wish dementia on anyone and definitely wouldn't want to extend my life while having dementia.
- jjtheblunt 10mo agonot eating is an example, i believe, from my father who had chemo induced neurotoxicity predicted well over a decade earlier.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- dd8601fn 10mo agoToo bad you can't get it until you're over 50 or immunocompromised.
- cess11 10mo agoWhy not?
- gorfian_robot 10mo agogood question. but that is how it is in the US and MX.
- singlow 10mo agoI think you can if you self pay, but insurance only pays in certain circumstances.
- mlinhares 10mo agoI tried and they won't give me. Gonna ask my primary care to request it.
- onair4you 10mo agoI’m more worried that by the time I’m 50 it will no longer be available…
- swatcoder 10mo agoIt's not been formally evidenced as beneficial in younger, healthy people (there just haven't been studies) so receiving it is "off label". It's possible to find someone who would write a prescription for it anyway, as with many off label prescriptions with low perceived risk of harm, but insurance is unlikely to cover it. Many/most doctors won't do that, though, especially without at least some kind of specific reason (like having recurrent cases already).
- kiba 10mo ago"Low risk" unfortunately doesn't mean no risk. I wish to be vaccinated against all disease, but rationally I must acknowledge very low probability event of harm from vaccination. It's why they're recommended only for 50 and older.
- CrossVR 10mo agoI wonder when we'll finally accept that there's no such thing as a harmless latent disease. Chickenpox, EBV, HPV, they're all associated with either neurodegeneration or cancer. We should be vaccinating kids against all of them rather than sending them to Chickenpox parties.
- matthewdgreen 10mo agoI looked into a chickenpox vaccine a while back, but it turns out the current varicella vaccine uses a live virus. So if you're fortunate enough not to have been exposed to chickenpox, taking the vaccine could put it into your body. The Shingles vaccine, on the other hand, has no live virus at all. But you can't get that til 50. ETA: Since someone downvoted this: I'm not criticizing vaccination, and you should absolutely get your kids vaccinated! But for someone (like me) at the age where you've seen friends with Shingles (ugh), adding live chickenpox virus to your body feels like a risky idea, even before this news.
- wesleywt 10mo agoIts an attenuated vaccine, which means it was grown to be weaker then the wildtype by growing it in non-human cells making it more specific to what it was grown in. I have never had chickenpox because i had the vaccine. If had chickenpox as a child you were extremely unlucky because its completely unnecessary.
- gorfian_robot 10mo agothis is nice side benefit. but when you hit 50 you want the shingrex (two shots) vax ASAP. you def do NOT want shingles.
- gorfian_robot 10mo agomy dad (who has had the shingrex) sometimes still gets a mild case on his legs and when it does it is too painful to have anything touch his legs. no pants, not even a sheet. my mom (who passed before shingrex) got a bad case in one eye and went blind in that eye. so nice that kids have been getting the chickenpox vaccine for a while now and shouldn't have to deal much with shingles as the age.
- giancarlostoro 10mo agoI already got it, apparently there's a weird uptick in men to the point where some doctors are like, nah you don't have that, and then sure enough they realize you do upon further inspection. For context I know men who have gotten it in their mid to late 20s I got it in my early 30s. I'm not sure what the cause is, but for additional context, Shingles is way more common in women. So there might need to be more studies into shingles and why men are getting it more frequently and younger.
- modeless 10mo agoI've heard a theory that since the chickenpox vaccine for kids, natural exposure to the virus in the wild is way down, and our immune systems are more likely to forget about it. Not specific to men of course, but a possible explanation for an increase in shingles generally.
- square_usual 10mo agoThere's been a few studies that found increase in shingles as the chicken pox vaccine became more widespread in the US, actually. With the usual caveat that correlation is not causation.
- economistbob 10mo ago[flagged]
- ZebusJesus 10mo agoThis is fascinating
- ZebusJesus 10mo agohow do you get downvoted for thinking science is cool, serious
- mckn1ght 10mo agoYour original comment doesn't add anything substantive to the conversation, and would've been better served by simply upvoting the link, or other comments. It could even come off as sarcastic to certain people, it's hard to know what you're really thinking or why you find it fascinating. In case you've never seen the guidelines, you're discouraged from talking about downvotes: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ZebusJesus 10mo agoah yes because there are so many doctors and biologist giving their take on a computer nerd forum
- mckn1ght 10mo agoIt seemed important to you to get positive karma on said nerd forum, but keep on keeping on, negative six
- ZebusJesus 10mo agoits people like you that make this place toxic
- ln809 10mo agoArticle specifically refers to vaccination with live attenuated virus... Should a difference be inferred between Shingrix and Zostavax (in the context of the effect on dementia, not shingles) Background to the question is providers here seem to be switching to Shingrix for (claimed) higher effectiveness against shingles, but there's at least some suggestion that Shingix is not live (attenuated) virus...
- kieranmaine 10mo agoFrom https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2025-06-25-how-do-vaccines-reduce-risk-dementia https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2025-06-25-how-do-vaccines-reduce-... > The shingles vaccine now in widespread use (Shingrix) has more of an effect than the previous one (Zostavax). A key difference between these vaccines is that Shingrix contains an ‘adjuvant’, an ingredient designed to enhance the vaccine’s effect. It is therefore possible that the adjuvant contributes to Shingrix’ greater effect than Zostavax on reducing dementia.
- ZeroConcerns 10mo ago[flagged]
- mzs 10mo agofrom one of the previous papers: "To provide causal as opposed to correlational evidence, we take advantage of the fact that, in Wales, eligibility for the zoster vaccine was determined on the basis of an individual’s exact date of birth. Those born before 2 September 1933 were ineligible and remained ineligible for life, whereas those born on or after 2 September 1933 were eligible for at least 1 year to receive the vaccine." Eyting, M., Xie, M., Michalik, F. et al. A natural experiment on the effect of herpes zoster vaccination on dementia. Nature 641, 438–446 (2025). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-025-08800-x https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-025-08800-x
- hn_acc1 10mo agoDefinitely got shingrix once I hit 50. The first one hit me pretty hard.. Did a blood antibody test, for some reason, no rubella anti-bodies. Will get that + dTap (9 years old, need tetanus booster soon anyway) before they outlaw them..
- latchkey 10mo agoSame... and the second one hit me just as hard. Glad I did it though.