19 ms·

Happy 20th Birthday, IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad

122 points by bornhuetter 14y ago

3825 14y ago
happy birthday, red dot
- 3825 14y ago
  In case you didn't know, I was talking about the pointing stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick
  - mhd 14y ago
    "(Redirected from Nipple mouse)" Thank you, Wikipedia.
- eckyptang 14y ago
  Obligatory XKCD about the trackpoint: http://xkcd.com/243/ http://xkcd.com/243/
robin_reala 14y ago
If I ever move from OSX to Linux then I wouldn’t consider anything but a Thinkpad. Shame I have no idea where my Butterfly went.
ElliotH 14y ago
Happy Birthday ThinkPad! Not a fan of their customer service, but my little X121e is the best laptop I've ever used.
- bstx 14y ago
  > but my little X121e is the best laptop I've ever used. What do you compare it with? I have one too (but currently dead due to infamous reset loop bug) and I think it is the worst ThinkPad I have owned. The screen is horrible, lackluster build quality and fit'n'finish, so so Linux support and the underside of the keyboard needed to be stuffed with cardboard to type properly. Given the budget price point I don't think it should carry a ThinkPad label at all, it tarnishes the brand. Edit: I have the AMD Fusion, not the Intel variant.
  - ElliotH 14y ago
    I have the Intel variant, as I understand it the fusion is a little bit worse. I compare it to various laptops from the likes of Samsung and Toshiba I've had. I'm not calling it the best in the world, just the best I've used. I like how easy it's been for me to mod it too. It is however my first ThinkPad. Others may be much better.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
alrs 14y ago
Only a few more years now before the patents run out on the trackpoint, at which point it will be "reimagined" by Apple.
- Symmetry 14y ago
  Is that why so few other laptops have them? Well, I'm looking forward to it.
  - tedunangst 14y ago
    For a time Dells came with them. I have a Fujitsu that has a stick. Then suddenly they stopped making them. I think the patent is available to license, companies have chosen not to license it for whatever reason. It's not like there aren't patents associated with touchpads.
    - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
      Both HP and Dell's current pro lines have a nub on their keyboards; and Unicomp (fka Lexmark/IBM keyboard division) sells a Model M variant with one as well. Apparently Unicomp is claiming to own the patent as well[0] [0] http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
    - flurpitude 14y ago
      I had a Toshiba with one of these, around 1999/2000. Didn't like it much though - it made my finger sore.
    - miahi 14y ago
      I have an old Compaq (n620c, lauched ~2003) and that has it too. Current HP EliteBooks have them.
    - kooshball 14y ago
      I have used both of those, and the implementation is horrendous. It's nothing like the smooth feeling on a thinkpad
alisnic 14y ago
I own a X60s, bought it for 170$, I was never so happy owning a laptop, this little thing is amazing. And it is also cute (in a hardware geeky way cute)
- tammer 14y ago
  I'm still using my X31. With Arch Linux it's still as fast as I need it to be. Simply the best machines.
eckyptang 14y ago
Happy birthday - typed on my T61 :)
nicholassmith 14y ago
They made some genuinely interesting hardware, trying different things. I always thought that the ThinkPads were head and shoulders above every other manufacturer for PC laptops.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mhd 14y ago
I much prefer the black plastic + magnesium alloy frame to e.g. Apple's aluminum/unibody design. Can take some punishment, without actually showing it. Wish Apple would've stuck with their earlier PowerBook/iBook G3 aesthetic (then again, I do admit liking the toilet lid iBooks, so maybe I'm not the right person to judge these things).
bafjohnson 14y ago
My father worked for IBM for his whole career - and as I was growing up there were always a number of Thinkpads in the house right from the 700C. They were amazing, well made pieces of hardware and to this day I have kept buying them through the years and currently have a Thinkpad X220 (i7 CPU, 16GB RAM). The sad fact is that it now gets so little use compared to my MacBook Air. Why is that? Purely because I prefer OS X. Happy Birthday Thinkpad - I'm sorry I have deserted you.
rshlo 14y ago
I really think that are still the best piece of laptop hardware around. Nothing beats my X200 when flying for 11 hours straight. Happy birthday Thinkpads!
OhArgh 14y ago
One big plus is a lot of them have a middle mouse button, which is very rare on touch pads.
foxhop 14y ago
Long time ThinkPad user; I recently replaced my T60 with a T430: http://russell.ballestrini.net/the-pyramid-community-taught-me-the-importance-of-test-driven-development/ http://russell.ballestrini.net/the-pyramid-community-taught-... I'm very happy with the laptop and choice.
- xur17 14y ago
  I'm in a similar position. I have a T60 right now, and I have been considering upgrading to a T430, but I really don't have a huge need to. My laptop runs fast enough for the stuff I use it for, and it's still in good condition (but I'd still love to get a new, faster computer). I've been using the laptop practically every day for the past 4 years, carrying it to campus, etc, and it's been holding up quite well. The only downside is that they don't offer very good graphics cards for it, so it wouldn't make a good gaming computer. It does have a really nice keyboard thought, and makes a great development PC.
  - adestefan 14y ago
    The nice thing is that complete ThinkPads of the T60/T61 vintage with a decent battery, AC adapater, and HD still command a decent premium in the used market. Hell I got $175 for a T23 about a year ago. The market is flush with system off corporate lease, but they rarely include the above items.
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  I recently switched from a 15" T61 to a 14" T430s. My T61 is now my home server and probably will be for another 5 years. I wanted to stay at 15" but the laptop would be too big. Lenovo also have lots of bezel on the new ones in addition to the decreased resolution. They messed up the default colour profile of the 1600x900 screen - it is horrendous. I used a ColorHug to get the right profile which you can download https://plus.google.com/110166527124367568225/posts/bLg18FtS8KZ https://plus.google.com/110166527124367568225/posts/bLg18FtS...
s_henry_paulson 14y ago
This is probably the only forum where this rant will, be relevant, but as someone who has used ThinkPads for a long time (and has a business that sells them), I have to say the "back" and "forward" buttons on the newer keyboards are a terrible design. I can't even count the amount of things I lost by accidentally bumping the "back" key before I disabled them with third-party software, and people we sell the laptops to have the same experience. But out of all my years with ThinkPads, this is my only complaint.
- kwanbis 14y ago
  Agree about all you said. What third-party software you used?
- FlukeATX 14y ago
  Are you talking about the ones right near the arrow keys? I loved those! Unfortunately (or fortunately for you!) they seem to be gone on the newest T series, replaced by PgUp and PgDn.
- ww520 14y ago
  AutoHotkey to the rescue.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- bo1024 14y ago
  Completely agree, probably one of the biggest complaints I have (which is definitely a positive comment on thinkpads overall).
linker3000 14y ago
Used to be a fan, but over the last 2 years or so we've noticed that quality seems to have dropped, especially on power units. Older models go on-and-on, but with more recent purchases we've had a couple of PSU deaths and one laptop died completely when it was impaled on its docking station and had to have its system board replaced under warranty.
deltaqueue 14y ago
I've been using IBM (and now Lenovo) Thinkpads for quite some time, and despite being a fan of their X series (currently using an X220) I REALLY wish Lenovo would consolidate lineups and focus on higher quality offerings. Even small stuff like offering a TN panel on an X series instead of an IPS panel seems foolish. Having just upgraded my display from TN to IPS, it's such a stark difference that I think Lenovo should default to selling these kinds of higher-end product lines with IPS. When IBM solid Thinkpad, it was a premium brand. It still maintains that connotation among IT professionals today (who know the lineups and history), but there are so many models out there that are absolute crap (or at least, look like garbage) that it's diluting the reputation. This is pure speculation, but I haven't heard "that Thinkpad looks awesome" or "that machine looks well built" in quite some time (X1 carbon aside).
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > I haven't heard "that Thinkpad looks awesome" or "that machine looks well built" in quite some time (X1 carbon aside). That's because a large sector of the tech industry (and a lot of non-techies as well) has been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid non-stop for the last ~5 years. That said, I think the X1 Carbon is the flagship model we've been waiting for. It ticks all the right checkboxes, and if you can handle the new keyboard (which has been getting surprisingly good reviews), then I think it's the way to go.
  - icey 14y ago
    Do you use an X1 Carbon? I've heard a lot of people remarking about it, but very few of those people actually seem to use one. If you do, how's the screen?
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      No, I've got an older T-series model, but I'm considering upgrading. My opinions are mostly based on reviews I've read online.
    - cturner 14y ago
      I got one the first day I could order in the UK with a US English keyboard, and I love it. Running ubuntu. I was on a two year old macbook pro before. I'm not a screen connoisseur, but it's non-glare yet bright. I like it. But the vertical resolution is lower than on older thinkpads. Fewer lines of code.
jgrahamc 14y ago
I loved the ThinkPads I owned. In the mid to late 90s I was flying a lot around the US and used to carry one of the ThinkPads where you could remove the CD drive after lifting up the keyboard and install a second battery. That machine also had a removable hard drive that I used to pop out when leaving my computer in hotel rooms so that I didn't mind if the machine was stolen. On long flights I would carry up to six batteries with me which led to a funny exchange with Nicholas Negroponte who imagined (writing a Wired) a day when batteries had a power meter on them (imagine that!). I wrote to him to say that my solution for long flights was that I numbered my batteries and used them in order. He replied to the effect: "The simple solutions are often the best". The Wired piece from 1996: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/negroponte.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/negroponte.html Now when I travel, almost everyone is pecking away at a keyboard. The one-line monochrome message has evolved into a full-color, 12-inch display. That is enormous progress, but at a powerful price. I now carry eight to ten battery packs during long trips. I won't even consider a laptop design that includes unstackable batteries. The fact that most batteries don't indicate their charge state is pathetic. It's as if the designer assumed that the laptop would always be used plugged in, and that people would travel with one spare battery at most.
keppy 14y ago
"It's what Shakespeare would have used on a flight to the coast." facepalm
ilamont 14y ago
In the mid-1990s, I bought a used IBM ThinkPad 701 in Hong Kong. Ten years before netbooks, this wonderful little laptop had a very unique approach to compact size: A "butterfly" keyboard that unfolded when you opened the laptop. There are some photos and historical information about the 701 here: http://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/throwback-gadget-ibm-thinkpad-701/ http://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/throwback-gadget-ib... Supposedly, the design was inspired by a black bento box. Although primitive by today's standards, it was a solid little laptop that served me well for the tasks I was engaged in at the time -- writing, Web surfing, learning HTML, and playing Doom.
- smacktoward 14y ago
  The butterfly keyboard is one of those fascinating little cul-de-sacs of computing history: a brilliant design that never went anywhere. But it sure made an impression; to this day I can't think of ThinkPads without thinking of it.
lbraasch 14y ago
T21 -> T41p -> T61p -> x220. I think it's safe to say I'm brand loyal. I've always felt that Thinkpads look cooler with a beat up the case. I'll never own a sleeve or protector. They don't require one. I have a hard time saying that about any of my other electronics. As a side, I've just flown from LAX -> Sydney -> Perth on a single charge using the Slice battery and standard 6 cell. Took out season 5 of Mad Men in 720p in the process.
- mahyarm 14y ago
  I cracked the T21 lcd screen in college with an overstuffed backpack. The LCD backplates are not that hard, probably just plastic.
dfc 14y ago
Hands down the best laptop for linux in my opinion. I would be interested to hear if there are any other laptop lines with such a great history of linux support.
- ajross 14y ago
  Certainly not the history. But in the modern world there is a pretty broad selection of nice devices out there. I just bought a Sony Vaio Z (SVZ131190X): 13.3" 1920x1080 screen, quad core ivy bridge, no discrete GPU, 8G RAM, 512G SSD, Intel 6235 Wifi, ultrabook form factor though not actually branded as one. Almost literally everything worked out of the box on Fedora 17 (the sole exception being the card reader, which is supported by a staging driver Fedora doesn't put in its default kernels; rpmfusion has a kmod-staging package, or just build your own kernel). I love it. The days of tricky Linux support in laptops are, thankfully, mostly behind us.
iyulaev 14y ago
One thing the Thinkpads do right, by me, is the keyboard, which I'm surprised no one here has mentioned. They have just the right depth of stroke, and the backing tends to be very solid to minimize flex. One thing that I wish most manufacturers would understand is that specs matter much less than the user interface. And for geeks, the UI is typically the keyboard, the display, and to a lesser extent the mouse (since the OS can be tweaked to the user's liking). Get these things right, and I don't care if it has a PIII in it, I'll use it.
- philjohn 14y ago
  This. It's an absolute joy to type on a Thinkpad keyboard. I haven't tried the new "chiclet" one that's been introduced, so I really hope that haven't ruined it. The ThinkLight is also brilliant - much better than a backlit keyboard IMHO.
  - pearle 14y ago
    I have both the X220 (standard kb) and X1 (chiclet kb). The X220 keyboard is much better than the X1.
- sunraa 14y ago
  Ahhh that keyboard! by far the best I've ever used on a laptop. I think I started with a 770 going back almost 15 years ago to a t61 and the keyboard was rock solid. Switched to a MBP and still long for that keyboard.
philjohn 14y ago
Writing this on my work-issued W520. Absolutely lovely machine. It's a workstation class laptop that isn't huge (like the equivalent Dell) and doesn't roast my legs (like the equivalent Dell).
smcguinness 14y ago
I just got the T530 about a month ago. It was a rough order process as it was delayed numerous times. (This will be fixed by moving onshore now). It has been a great machine. The only complaint I have about it is the slow wake time. For whatever reason (even after following some optimization tips), when it wakes from closed cover or timeout it takes forever.
- prolepunk 14y ago
  I got to ask -- how is the new keyboard? I have T420 from a year ago and it still had classic keyboard. Is the new one worse?
  - smcguinness 14y ago
    I like it. I splurged the $5 more for the backlit keyboard. The only thing with keyboards is how loud the keys are when they type. I find that it is pretty quiet. Only thing I'm not used to is the left Ctrl key position. Ultimately I'm pleased with the choice, having been a long time dell laptop user and never having a thinkpad, I'd definitely buy again (as long as startup gets a little faster)
jamesbritt 14y ago
Big fan. Ended up getting a W500 from a Lenovo outlet because the newer machines have abandoned my beloved WUXGA (1920x1200) screen. Widescreen? More like shortscreen. Business machines should not be optimized for consuming entertainment.
Stratoscope 14y ago
I bought my first ThinkPad (the classic ThinkPad 600) in 1998. I immediately decided it was wonderful and swore I'd never use another brand of computer again. There was a time after that when they just kept getting better and better: the A30p with a beautiful 1600x1200 IPS display, and then that same display in the slimmed-down and faster T60p. I also bought a bunch of old beaters to use as test machines and what not: 750's, 755's, a 360, and I was so happy when I tracked down a 701c with the butterfly keyboard. Then for a while you could get used working A30p's in good condition for $300 or so. Did I mention the 1600x1200 IPS display? :-) I love the TrackPoint [1] and those great displays, and even better, all the machines had the same great keyboard! When other laptop manufacturers were fiddling with this layout and that, every ThinkPad had the same exact keyboard, and it was a good one too. I could move from one ThinkPad to another without thinking about it. Then, they hired a keyboard designer. You could see the trouble coming in this poll: http://blog.lenovo.com/design/keyboard-layout-survey-details-matter http://blog.lenovo.com/design/keyboard-layout-survey-details... The poll itself is gone, but the comments on the blog post are still there. The poll had all sorts of layout tweaks - moving various keys around in an A-B-C-D test - just the kind of thing a keyboard designer would want to do. Then the new keyboards started coming along. Commonly used keys were moved around, and the F1-F2 keys were jammed into a solid tight row with no gaps between the groups of four keys. These gaps (between F4-F5 and F8-F9) are what afforded easy touch typing on these keys that are so far away from the home row. Trust me, if you're reaching for Fn+F5 (wireless settings), you don't want to hit Fn+F4 (standby) by mistake. With the old keyboards, that's never a problem. There's a nice gap between F4 and F5 and you don't have to look at the keys to hit the right one. With the new one, good luck. (Oddly enough, the ThinkPad X1 and X1 Carbon do have little gaps here even though they follow the new layout otherwise. But the other newer models, no such luck. And the X1 keyboards are not compatible with other models.) Many die-hard ThinkPad fans hated the new keyboards, not because of the "island" design but because of these frivolous layout changes. Lenovo's response: http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you-should-give-in-to-the-new-thinkpad-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you-should-give-in-to-th... Entrepreneurs, read the comments on that post for a lesson in how to discourage your most avid supporters. :-( Edit: this comment on that post was insightful: > I bet the recent supposed user tests also didn't include a significant number of dedicated, old-timer ThinkPad programmers, otherwise you'd made more of an effort mentioning this in the article, and the outcome would most likely have been different. Rather, it must have consisted mainly of random people off the street who're used to cheap laptops with keyboard layouts changing with every model. So surely they can't be bothered with yet another weird layout and thus mark it as "fine". [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint

122 points by bornhuetter 14y ago

3825 14y ago

happy birthday, red dot

3825 14y ago
In case you didn't know, I was talking about the pointing stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick
- mhd 14y ago
  "(Redirected from Nipple mouse)" Thank you, Wikipedia.
eckyptang 14y ago
Obligatory XKCD about the trackpoint: http://xkcd.com/243/ http://xkcd.com/243/

robin_reala 14y ago

If I ever move from OSX to Linux then I wouldn’t consider anything but a Thinkpad. Shame I have no idea where my Butterfly went.

ElliotH 14y ago

Happy Birthday ThinkPad! Not a fan of their customer service, but my little X121e is the best laptop I've ever used.

bstx 14y ago
> but my little X121e is the best laptop I've ever used. What do you compare it with? I have one too (but currently dead due to infamous reset loop bug) and I think it is the worst ThinkPad I have owned. The screen is horrible, lackluster build quality and fit'n'finish, so so Linux support and the underside of the keyboard needed to be stuffed with cardboard to type properly. Given the budget price point I don't think it should carry a ThinkPad label at all, it tarnishes the brand. Edit: I have the AMD Fusion, not the Intel variant.
- ElliotH 14y ago
  I have the Intel variant, as I understand it the fusion is a little bit worse. I compare it to various laptops from the likes of Samsung and Toshiba I've had. I'm not calling it the best in the world, just the best I've used. I like how easy it's been for me to mod it too. It is however my first ThinkPad. Others may be much better.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

alrs 14y ago

Only a few more years now before the patents run out on the trackpoint, at which point it will be "reimagined" by Apple.

Symmetry 14y ago
Is that why so few other laptops have them? Well, I'm looking forward to it.
- tedunangst 14y ago
  For a time Dells came with them. I have a Fujitsu that has a stick. Then suddenly they stopped making them. I think the patent is available to license, companies have chosen not to license it for whatever reason. It's not like there aren't patents associated with touchpads.
  - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
    Both HP and Dell's current pro lines have a nub on their keyboards; and Unicomp (fka Lexmark/IBM keyboard division) sells a Model M variant with one as well. Apparently Unicomp is claiming to own the patent as well[0] [0] http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
  - flurpitude 14y ago
    I had a Toshiba with one of these, around 1999/2000. Didn't like it much though - it made my finger sore.
  - miahi 14y ago
    I have an old Compaq (n620c, lauched ~2003) and that has it too. Current HP EliteBooks have them.
  - kooshball 14y ago
    I have used both of those, and the implementation is horrendous. It's nothing like the smooth feeling on a thinkpad

alisnic 14y ago

I own a X60s, bought it for 170$, I was never so happy owning a laptop, this little thing is amazing. And it is also cute (in a hardware geeky way cute)

tammer 14y ago
I'm still using my X31. With Arch Linux it's still as fast as I need it to be. Simply the best machines.

eckyptang 14y ago

Happy birthday - typed on my T61 :)

nicholassmith 14y ago

They made some genuinely interesting hardware, trying different things. I always thought that the ThinkPads were head and shoulders above every other manufacturer for PC laptops.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mhd 14y ago

I much prefer the black plastic + magnesium alloy frame to e.g. Apple's aluminum/unibody design. Can take some punishment, without actually showing it. Wish Apple would've stuck with their earlier PowerBook/iBook G3 aesthetic (then again, I do admit liking the toilet lid iBooks, so maybe I'm not the right person to judge these things).

bafjohnson 14y ago

My father worked for IBM for his whole career - and as I was growing up there were always a number of Thinkpads in the house right from the 700C. They were amazing, well made pieces of hardware and to this day I have kept buying them through the years and currently have a Thinkpad X220 (i7 CPU, 16GB RAM). The sad fact is that it now gets so little use compared to my MacBook Air. Why is that? Purely because I prefer OS X. Happy Birthday Thinkpad - I'm sorry I have deserted you.

rshlo 14y ago

I really think that are still the best piece of laptop hardware around. Nothing beats my X200 when flying for 11 hours straight. Happy birthday Thinkpads!

OhArgh 14y ago

One big plus is a lot of them have a middle mouse button, which is very rare on touch pads.

foxhop 14y ago

Long time ThinkPad user; I recently replaced my T60 with a T430: http://russell.ballestrini.net/the-pyramid-community-taught-me-the-importance-of-test-driven-development/ http://russell.ballestrini.net/the-pyramid-community-taught-... I'm very happy with the laptop and choice.

xur17 14y ago
I'm in a similar position. I have a T60 right now, and I have been considering upgrading to a T430, but I really don't have a huge need to. My laptop runs fast enough for the stuff I use it for, and it's still in good condition (but I'd still love to get a new, faster computer). I've been using the laptop practically every day for the past 4 years, carrying it to campus, etc, and it's been holding up quite well. The only downside is that they don't offer very good graphics cards for it, so it wouldn't make a good gaming computer. It does have a really nice keyboard thought, and makes a great development PC.
- adestefan 14y ago
  The nice thing is that complete ThinkPads of the T60/T61 vintage with a decent battery, AC adapater, and HD still command a decent premium in the used market. Hell I got $175 for a T23 about a year ago. The market is flush with system off corporate lease, but they rarely include the above items.
rogerbinns 14y ago
I recently switched from a 15" T61 to a 14" T430s. My T61 is now my home server and probably will be for another 5 years. I wanted to stay at 15" but the laptop would be too big. Lenovo also have lots of bezel on the new ones in addition to the decreased resolution. They messed up the default colour profile of the 1600x900 screen - it is horrendous. I used a ColorHug to get the right profile which you can download https://plus.google.com/110166527124367568225/posts/bLg18FtS8KZ https://plus.google.com/110166527124367568225/posts/bLg18FtS...

s_henry_paulson 14y ago

This is probably the only forum where this rant will, be relevant, but as someone who has used ThinkPads for a long time (and has a business that sells them), I have to say the "back" and "forward" buttons on the newer keyboards are a terrible design. I can't even count the amount of things I lost by accidentally bumping the "back" key before I disabled them with third-party software, and people we sell the laptops to have the same experience. But out of all my years with ThinkPads, this is my only complaint.

kwanbis 14y ago
Agree about all you said. What third-party software you used?
FlukeATX 14y ago
Are you talking about the ones right near the arrow keys? I loved those! Unfortunately (or fortunately for you!) they seem to be gone on the newest T series, replaced by PgUp and PgDn.
ww520 14y ago
AutoHotkey to the rescue.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
bo1024 14y ago
Completely agree, probably one of the biggest complaints I have (which is definitely a positive comment on thinkpads overall).

linker3000 14y ago

Used to be a fan, but over the last 2 years or so we've noticed that quality seems to have dropped, especially on power units. Older models go on-and-on, but with more recent purchases we've had a couple of PSU deaths and one laptop died completely when it was impaled on its docking station and had to have its system board replaced under warranty.

deltaqueue 14y ago

I've been using IBM (and now Lenovo) Thinkpads for quite some time, and despite being a fan of their X series (currently using an X220) I REALLY wish Lenovo would consolidate lineups and focus on higher quality offerings. Even small stuff like offering a TN panel on an X series instead of an IPS panel seems foolish. Having just upgraded my display from TN to IPS, it's such a stark difference that I think Lenovo should default to selling these kinds of higher-end product lines with IPS. When IBM solid Thinkpad, it was a premium brand. It still maintains that connotation among IT professionals today (who know the lineups and history), but there are so many models out there that are absolute crap (or at least, look like garbage) that it's diluting the reputation. This is pure speculation, but I haven't heard "that Thinkpad looks awesome" or "that machine looks well built" in quite some time (X1 carbon aside).

w1ntermute 14y ago
> I haven't heard "that Thinkpad looks awesome" or "that machine looks well built" in quite some time (X1 carbon aside). That's because a large sector of the tech industry (and a lot of non-techies as well) has been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid non-stop for the last ~5 years. That said, I think the X1 Carbon is the flagship model we've been waiting for. It ticks all the right checkboxes, and if you can handle the new keyboard (which has been getting surprisingly good reviews), then I think it's the way to go.
- icey 14y ago
  Do you use an X1 Carbon? I've heard a lot of people remarking about it, but very few of those people actually seem to use one. If you do, how's the screen?
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    No, I've got an older T-series model, but I'm considering upgrading. My opinions are mostly based on reviews I've read online.
  - cturner 14y ago
    I got one the first day I could order in the UK with a US English keyboard, and I love it. Running ubuntu. I was on a two year old macbook pro before. I'm not a screen connoisseur, but it's non-glare yet bright. I like it. But the vertical resolution is lower than on older thinkpads. Fewer lines of code.

jgrahamc 14y ago

I loved the ThinkPads I owned. In the mid to late 90s I was flying a lot around the US and used to carry one of the ThinkPads where you could remove the CD drive after lifting up the keyboard and install a second battery. That machine also had a removable hard drive that I used to pop out when leaving my computer in hotel rooms so that I didn't mind if the machine was stolen. On long flights I would carry up to six batteries with me which led to a funny exchange with Nicholas Negroponte who imagined (writing a Wired) a day when batteries had a power meter on them (imagine that!). I wrote to him to say that my solution for long flights was that I numbered my batteries and used them in order. He replied to the effect: "The simple solutions are often the best". The Wired piece from 1996: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/negroponte.html http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/negroponte.html Now when I travel, almost everyone is pecking away at a keyboard. The one-line monochrome message has evolved into a full-color, 12-inch display. That is enormous progress, but at a powerful price. I now carry eight to ten battery packs during long trips. I won't even consider a laptop design that includes unstackable batteries. The fact that most batteries don't indicate their charge state is pathetic. It's as if the designer assumed that the laptop would always be used plugged in, and that people would travel with one spare battery at most.

keppy 14y ago

"It's what Shakespeare would have used on a flight to the coast." facepalm

ilamont 14y ago

In the mid-1990s, I bought a used IBM ThinkPad 701 in Hong Kong. Ten years before netbooks, this wonderful little laptop had a very unique approach to compact size: A "butterfly" keyboard that unfolded when you opened the laptop. There are some photos and historical information about the 701 here: http://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/throwback-gadget-ibm-thinkpad-701/ http://renaissancechambara.jp/2012/04/26/throwback-gadget-ib... Supposedly, the design was inspired by a black bento box. Although primitive by today's standards, it was a solid little laptop that served me well for the tasks I was engaged in at the time -- writing, Web surfing, learning HTML, and playing Doom.

smacktoward 14y ago
The butterfly keyboard is one of those fascinating little cul-de-sacs of computing history: a brilliant design that never went anywhere. But it sure made an impression; to this day I can't think of ThinkPads without thinking of it.

lbraasch 14y ago

T21 -> T41p -> T61p -> x220. I think it's safe to say I'm brand loyal. I've always felt that Thinkpads look cooler with a beat up the case. I'll never own a sleeve or protector. They don't require one. I have a hard time saying that about any of my other electronics. As a side, I've just flown from LAX -> Sydney -> Perth on a single charge using the Slice battery and standard 6 cell. Took out season 5 of Mad Men in 720p in the process.

mahyarm 14y ago
I cracked the T21 lcd screen in college with an overstuffed backpack. The LCD backplates are not that hard, probably just plastic.

dfc 14y ago

Hands down the best laptop for linux in my opinion. I would be interested to hear if there are any other laptop lines with such a great history of linux support.

ajross 14y ago
Certainly not the history. But in the modern world there is a pretty broad selection of nice devices out there. I just bought a Sony Vaio Z (SVZ131190X): 13.3" 1920x1080 screen, quad core ivy bridge, no discrete GPU, 8G RAM, 512G SSD, Intel 6235 Wifi, ultrabook form factor though not actually branded as one. Almost literally everything worked out of the box on Fedora 17 (the sole exception being the card reader, which is supported by a staging driver Fedora doesn't put in its default kernels; rpmfusion has a kmod-staging package, or just build your own kernel). I love it. The days of tricky Linux support in laptops are, thankfully, mostly behind us.

iyulaev 14y ago

One thing the Thinkpads do right, by me, is the keyboard, which I'm surprised no one here has mentioned. They have just the right depth of stroke, and the backing tends to be very solid to minimize flex. One thing that I wish most manufacturers would understand is that specs matter much less than the user interface. And for geeks, the UI is typically the keyboard, the display, and to a lesser extent the mouse (since the OS can be tweaked to the user's liking). Get these things right, and I don't care if it has a PIII in it, I'll use it.

philjohn 14y ago
This. It's an absolute joy to type on a Thinkpad keyboard. I haven't tried the new "chiclet" one that's been introduced, so I really hope that haven't ruined it. The ThinkLight is also brilliant - much better than a backlit keyboard IMHO.
- pearle 14y ago
  I have both the X220 (standard kb) and X1 (chiclet kb). The X220 keyboard is much better than the X1.
sunraa 14y ago
Ahhh that keyboard! by far the best I've ever used on a laptop. I think I started with a 770 going back almost 15 years ago to a t61 and the keyboard was rock solid. Switched to a MBP and still long for that keyboard.

philjohn 14y ago

Writing this on my work-issued W520. Absolutely lovely machine. It's a workstation class laptop that isn't huge (like the equivalent Dell) and doesn't roast my legs (like the equivalent Dell).

smcguinness 14y ago

I just got the T530 about a month ago. It was a rough order process as it was delayed numerous times. (This will be fixed by moving onshore now). It has been a great machine. The only complaint I have about it is the slow wake time. For whatever reason (even after following some optimization tips), when it wakes from closed cover or timeout it takes forever.

prolepunk 14y ago
I got to ask -- how is the new keyboard? I have T420 from a year ago and it still had classic keyboard. Is the new one worse?
- smcguinness 14y ago
  I like it. I splurged the $5 more for the backlit keyboard. The only thing with keyboards is how loud the keys are when they type. I find that it is pretty quiet. Only thing I'm not used to is the left Ctrl key position. Ultimately I'm pleased with the choice, having been a long time dell laptop user and never having a thinkpad, I'd definitely buy again (as long as startup gets a little faster)

jamesbritt 14y ago

Big fan. Ended up getting a W500 from a Lenovo outlet because the newer machines have abandoned my beloved WUXGA (1920x1200) screen. Widescreen? More like shortscreen. Business machines should not be optimized for consuming entertainment.

Stratoscope 14y ago

I bought my first ThinkPad (the classic ThinkPad 600) in 1998. I immediately decided it was wonderful and swore I'd never use another brand of computer again. There was a time after that when they just kept getting better and better: the A30p with a beautiful 1600x1200 IPS display, and then that same display in the slimmed-down and faster T60p. I also bought a bunch of old beaters to use as test machines and what not: 750's, 755's, a 360, and I was so happy when I tracked down a 701c with the butterfly keyboard. Then for a while you could get used working A30p's in good condition for $300 or so. Did I mention the 1600x1200 IPS display? :-) I love the TrackPoint [1] and those great displays, and even better, all the machines had the same great keyboard! When other laptop manufacturers were fiddling with this layout and that, every ThinkPad had the same exact keyboard, and it was a good one too. I could move from one ThinkPad to another without thinking about it. Then, they hired a keyboard designer. You could see the trouble coming in this poll: http://blog.lenovo.com/design/keyboard-layout-survey-details-matter http://blog.lenovo.com/design/keyboard-layout-survey-details... The poll itself is gone, but the comments on the blog post are still there. The poll had all sorts of layout tweaks - moving various keys around in an A-B-C-D test - just the kind of thing a keyboard designer would want to do. Then the new keyboards started coming along. Commonly used keys were moved around, and the F1-F2 keys were jammed into a solid tight row with no gaps between the groups of four keys. These gaps (between F4-F5 and F8-F9) are what afforded easy touch typing on these keys that are so far away from the home row. Trust me, if you're reaching for Fn+F5 (wireless settings), you don't want to hit Fn+F4 (standby) by mistake. With the old keyboards, that's never a problem. There's a nice gap between F4 and F5 and you don't have to look at the keys to hit the right one. With the new one, good luck. (Oddly enough, the ThinkPad X1 and X1 Carbon do have little gaps here even though they follow the new layout otherwise. But the other newer models, no such luck. And the X1 keyboards are not compatible with other models.) Many die-hard ThinkPad fans hated the new keyboards, not because of the "island" design but because of these frivolous layout changes. Lenovo's response: http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you-should-give-in-to-the-new-thinkpad-keyboard http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you-should-give-in-to-th... Entrepreneurs, read the comments on that post for a lesson in how to discourage your most avid supporters. :-( Edit: this comment on that post was insightful: > I bet the recent supposed user tests also didn't include a significant number of dedicated, old-timer ThinkPad programmers, otherwise you'd made more of an effort mentioning this in the article, and the outcome would most likely have been different. Rather, it must have consisted mainly of random people off the street who're used to cheap laptops with keyboard layouts changing with every model. So surely they can't be bothered with yet another weird layout and thus mark it as "fine". [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint https://www.google.com/search?q=love+trackpoint