30 ms·

So what's the current speculation on how it causes cancer? Glyphosate acts on the Shikimate pathway that doesn't exist in humans. Is it killing gut bacteria?

hammock 10mo ago
Mechanistic evidence shows low doses cause genotoxicity and oxidative stress in human lymphocytes and other cells. A novel mechanism proposal is that glyphosate may chelate and accumulate in the bone, slowly releasing into the bloodstream, exposing bone marrow and potentially triggering hematologic malignancies. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2152265025042855 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S21522...
pfdietz 10mo ago
My theory is that if you torture a chemical with enough diverse studies, you can find some where it confesses to causing cancer, even if it actually doesn't.
- smt88 10mo ago
  If what you say is true, we would know almost nothing about pharmacology and modern medicine wouldn't exist. There are basic scientific and statistical methods to avoid this.
  - pfdietz 10mo ago
    There are, but there are also strong incentives for what amounts to fraud, on both sides. Glyphosate has become both highly politicized -- it's used as an argument against GMOs -- and subject to concerted and lucrative legal attack. At the same time, the patent is expired, so the motivation to continue to defend it has waned. If anything, herbicide producers would now benefit if a cheap, public domain chemical were illegitimately banned in favor of more expensive chemicals still under patent protection. Even when supposedly honest scientists publish, it's often wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Findings_Are_False https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Fi...
    - earlyreturns 10mo ago
      This was and probably still is true about tobacco. Personally, I choose to not smoke.
      - pfdietz 10mo ago
        The evidence against tobacco was overwhelming.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - cbolton 10mo ago
      > the patent is expired, so the motivation to continue to defend it has waned. If anything, herbicide producers would now benefit if a cheap, public domain chemical were illegitimately banned in favor of more expensive chemicals still under patent protection That doesn't square with the fact that Monsanto thought it worthwhile to commit scientific fraud to push the narrative that glyphosate is safe, in a scientific paper published the same year that the patent expired.
      - pfdietz 10mo ago
        They had patents on Roundup Ready seeds. Those patents have also now expired.
- hombre_fatal 10mo ago
  When it comes to mechanistic speculation, absolutely.
NotGMan 10mo ago
Human gut bacteria have the Shikimate pathways so it can kill them. Basicaly glyphosate could act like a gut bacteria antibiotic. >> 54% of the human core gut bacterial species are potentially sensitive to glyphosate, which targets an enzyme in the shikimate pathway, suggesting that roughly half of gut bacteria possess this pathway https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201120095858.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201120095858.h...

hammock 10mo ago

Mechanistic evidence shows low doses cause genotoxicity and oxidative stress in human lymphocytes and other cells. A novel mechanism proposal is that glyphosate may chelate and accumulate in the bone, slowly releasing into the bloodstream, exposing bone marrow and potentially triggering hematologic malignancies. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2152265025042855 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S21522...

pfdietz 10mo ago

My theory is that if you torture a chemical with enough diverse studies, you can find some where it confesses to causing cancer, even if it actually doesn't.

smt88 10mo ago
If what you say is true, we would know almost nothing about pharmacology and modern medicine wouldn't exist. There are basic scientific and statistical methods to avoid this.
- pfdietz 10mo ago
  There are, but there are also strong incentives for what amounts to fraud, on both sides. Glyphosate has become both highly politicized -- it's used as an argument against GMOs -- and subject to concerted and lucrative legal attack. At the same time, the patent is expired, so the motivation to continue to defend it has waned. If anything, herbicide producers would now benefit if a cheap, public domain chemical were illegitimately banned in favor of more expensive chemicals still under patent protection. Even when supposedly honest scientists publish, it's often wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Findings_Are_False https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Most_Published_Research_Fi...
  - earlyreturns 10mo ago
    This was and probably still is true about tobacco. Personally, I choose to not smoke.
    - pfdietz 10mo ago
      The evidence against tobacco was overwhelming.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - cbolton 10mo ago
    > the patent is expired, so the motivation to continue to defend it has waned. If anything, herbicide producers would now benefit if a cheap, public domain chemical were illegitimately banned in favor of more expensive chemicals still under patent protection That doesn't square with the fact that Monsanto thought it worthwhile to commit scientific fraud to push the narrative that glyphosate is safe, in a scientific paper published the same year that the patent expired.
    - pfdietz 10mo ago
      They had patents on Roundup Ready seeds. Those patents have also now expired.
hombre_fatal 10mo ago
When it comes to mechanistic speculation, absolutely.

NotGMan 10mo ago

Human gut bacteria have the Shikimate pathways so it can kill them. Basicaly glyphosate could act like a gut bacteria antibiotic. >> 54% of the human core gut bacterial species are potentially sensitive to glyphosate, which targets an enzyme in the shikimate pathway, suggesting that roughly half of gut bacteria possess this pathway https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201120095858.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201120095858.h...