5 ms·

Or we could go back to using software that didn't require 1 Gb to run the OS / Browser combo powerful enough to run a browser that can load "too much" javascrip

Or we could go back to using software that didn't require 1 Gb to run the OS / Browser combo powerful enough to run a browser that can load "too much" javascript to enable a webmail interface. In the 80s I ran an early SMTP / POP email client that functioned as a DOS TSR with code and data less than 64k. Granted, it was pretty crappy and was text-only (non MIME.) But there's got to be a middle ground between 64k for a craptastic text-only email client and a 1Gb OS / Browser / Webmail combo that could probably run that DOS TSR in an emulator as an attachment to a short email.

knallfrosch 11mo ago
You have to ship software that behaves exactly the same across three desktop operating systems and two mobile operating systems. Be glad we leave out tablets for this. You're able to hire 4 vibecoding juniors and your deadline is in 6 months. You know what you choose for a frontend? It's Electron + React and React Native. And none of your customers will complain because the people with money to spend are rocking 12GB of RAM on their phone.
- OhMeadhbh 11mo ago
  Yeah. That's not the world I live in. I live in the terminal.
  - joks 11mo ago
    Congrats on being part of the 0.001% I guess?
- jbverschoor 11mo ago
  The election apps are the same size as a complete VM of windows 2000.
cyanydeez 11mo ago
Yo, your comment makes it seem like AI deserves this memory and chrome does not...
- estimator7292 11mo ago
  They're saying the amount of bloat in modern software is so ridiculous that it requires multiple gigabytes of memory to run a single application that, in a sane universe, shouldn't occupy more than a hundred MB. AI doesn't deserve it more than we do, but also we shouldn't be required to have $300 in RAM for basic functionality. We shouldn't have to deal with RAM scalpers because businesses don't want to develop good software. Instead, we the users are forced to pay for more and more memory and CPU and disk because some rich asshole doesn't want to spend the money on developing good software. The costs are pushed to us. And since resources are now unimaginably expensive, it's still our problem and we still have to foot the bill a million times over.
  - cyanydeez 11mo ago
    Yo, are you saying AI is not the epitome of bloat? Like, it's not a cancer of epic proportions. Very confused.. Wat?
    - hug 11mo ago
      LLMs use a lot of RAM as a fundamental part of their operation. The RAM is used to achieve the goal as efficiently as we know how. Even if you disagree with the goal needing to be achieved at all, the RAM usage is about as efficient as we can design. Regular modern applications use a lot of RAM as an incidental or accidental part of their operation. Even if you think the tasks that they're achieving are of extreme need, the RAM use is excessive. These problems are apples and oranges. You can hate both, or one, or neither. I know plenty of people who are in each one of those camps.
      - cyanydeez 11mo ago
        Chrome fundamentally uses ram ato avoid. What? What a weird LLM apologetics.
        hug 11mo ago
Aloisius 11mo ago
As long as javascript developers don't care about memory usage, I'm not sure what anyone can do. I mean, for goodness sake, an empty YouTube page with no videos eats up a shocking amount of memory - 90 MB just for the js heap. I used to run Windows 3.1 on a machine with 8 MB of RAM. Admittedly, a good amount of memory used with browsers is because of larger graphics buffers that go along with higher resolution monitors, but much is just... waste.
benced 11mo ago
People optimize to what is scarce. Previously, developer time was much more scare than memory. Seems like that might change so folks might start to optimize to memory. It's not a moral judgement, it's a technical decision about where to allocate resources.

knallfrosch 11mo ago

You have to ship software that behaves exactly the same across three desktop operating systems and two mobile operating systems. Be glad we leave out tablets for this. You're able to hire 4 vibecoding juniors and your deadline is in 6 months. You know what you choose for a frontend? It's Electron + React and React Native. And none of your customers will complain because the people with money to spend are rocking 12GB of RAM on their phone.

OhMeadhbh 11mo ago
Yeah. That's not the world I live in. I live in the terminal.
- joks 11mo ago
  Congrats on being part of the 0.001% I guess?
jbverschoor 11mo ago
The election apps are the same size as a complete VM of windows 2000.

cyanydeez 11mo ago

Yo, your comment makes it seem like AI deserves this memory and chrome does not...

estimator7292 11mo ago
They're saying the amount of bloat in modern software is so ridiculous that it requires multiple gigabytes of memory to run a single application that, in a sane universe, shouldn't occupy more than a hundred MB. AI doesn't deserve it more than we do, but also we shouldn't be required to have $300 in RAM for basic functionality. We shouldn't have to deal with RAM scalpers because businesses don't want to develop good software. Instead, we the users are forced to pay for more and more memory and CPU and disk because some rich asshole doesn't want to spend the money on developing good software. The costs are pushed to us. And since resources are now unimaginably expensive, it's still our problem and we still have to foot the bill a million times over.
- cyanydeez 11mo ago
  Yo, are you saying AI is not the epitome of bloat? Like, it's not a cancer of epic proportions. Very confused.. Wat?
  - hug 11mo ago
    LLMs use a lot of RAM as a fundamental part of their operation. The RAM is used to achieve the goal as efficiently as we know how. Even if you disagree with the goal needing to be achieved at all, the RAM usage is about as efficient as we can design. Regular modern applications use a lot of RAM as an incidental or accidental part of their operation. Even if you think the tasks that they're achieving are of extreme need, the RAM use is excessive. These problems are apples and oranges. You can hate both, or one, or neither. I know plenty of people who are in each one of those camps.
    - cyanydeez 11mo ago
      Chrome fundamentally uses ram ato avoid. What? What a weird LLM apologetics.
      - hug 11mo ago

Aloisius 11mo ago

As long as javascript developers don't care about memory usage, I'm not sure what anyone can do. I mean, for goodness sake, an empty YouTube page with no videos eats up a shocking amount of memory - 90 MB just for the js heap. I used to run Windows 3.1 on a machine with 8 MB of RAM. Admittedly, a good amount of memory used with browsers is because of larger graphics buffers that go along with higher resolution monitors, but much is just... waste.

benced 11mo ago

People optimize to what is scarce. Previously, developer time was much more scare than memory. Seems like that might change so folks might start to optimize to memory. It's not a moral judgement, it's a technical decision about where to allocate resources.