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http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html > But I have noticed that in many real-world companies,

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html > But I have noticed that in many real-world companies, the desire never to miss any bug report leads to bug bankrupcy, where you wake up one day and discover that there are 3000 open bugs in the database, some of which are so old they may not apply any more, some of which can never be reproduced, and most of which are not even worth fixing because they’re so tiny. When you look closely you realize that months or years of work has gone into preparing those bug reports, and you ask yourself, how could we have 3000 bugs in the database while our product is delightful and customers love it and use it every day? At some point you realize that you’ve put too much work into the bug database and not quite enough work into the product. doesn't really work, though, does it?

neilk 14y ago
How about a radical notion - we only fix the bugs that we got a report on in the last 30 days, or that we've worked on in the past 30 days, and still seem like they are worth the trouble. If fixing the bug is really about adding a new feature, transfer it to a different list. The thing about bugs is that they get reliably re-reported over time anyway, causing you to spend even more time noting the duplicates. And for old bugs, you need to spend even more time reconfirming if they are still relevant. Everybody hates this. Why not exploit the recurrent nature of bug reports, and assume the users will ask us about it again if it matters? I can't think of an instance where we were really glad that we saved some minor bug reports from months and months ago.
- codinghorror 14y ago
  > The thing about bugs is that they get reliably re-reported over time anyway This is the key sentence. If a bug matters, it will be reported more than once. In fact the more it is reported, the more it matters. If you need to do something, and forget, then there will be consequences. Those consequences will be a strong reminder that in the future your brain should be a lot more scared of this outcome. And if there are no consequences, did you really need to do that thing? Because why? Similarly, if an idea you had is good and you didn't write it down, don't worry, it will come back. Good ideas have a nasty habit of bubbling up in your brain and not leaving you alone. Have some confidence in your mind's ability to consistently dredge up the good stuff on its own. You don't need systems and methodologies and software to do so.
  - neilk 14y ago
    I'm not sure I agree. I am consumed with interest in a particular project right now, but there are so many avenues to explore, it's very easy for me to get interested in what font the logo should be or a bunch of other stuff that just doesn't matter. My brain's natural impulses are not always helpful.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - flurie 14y ago
    I'm not sure using "if you love something, set it free" is a good judge of the worth of ideas. To me it belies a lack of deep introspection.
    - npsimons 14y ago
      To me it belies a lack of deep introspection. I think this could describe most of the articles on codinghorror.com these days. Or to put it more politely (from a quote by Einstein): "The horizon of many people is a circle with a radius of zero. They call this their point of view." What doesn't work for someone may work for others.
  - npsimons 14y ago
    If you need to do something, and forget, then there will be consequences. Like feeding your pets? Or your children? Yeah, I'm sure the court will see it that way. Similarly, if an idea you had is good and you didn't write it down, don't worry, it will come back. Good ideas have a nasty habit of bubbling up in your brain and not leaving you alone. What evidence do you have for this? How many scientific breakthroughs have been due to happy accidents, or someone noticing a tiny thread and keeping track of it? How many times do you hear about some scientific discovery that took decades because people kept forgetting to note "insignificant" details? One last thing: just because lists don't work for you doesn't mean they don't have utility for others.
SCdF 14y ago
Jeff this is a bit fallacious. There is a fairly intelligible difference between "keeping a list of bugs that need to be fixed never works let's just remember it in our heads" and "bug databases often get misused and the result is they fill up with junk". The downsides noted in that quote are definitely valid, and I've worked in companies / projects where that happens, but I don't think that completely invalidates them as a concept.
- cmccabe 14y ago
  A bug tracker is not a TODO list. I work on Hadoop, and there are bugs that have been open for 6 years now, and probably will be open for 6 more. Bug trackers can help you compose a TODO list (sometimes called a roadmap, in a corporate context), but they are not themselves TODO lists.

neilk 14y ago

How about a radical notion - we only fix the bugs that we got a report on in the last 30 days, or that we've worked on in the past 30 days, and still seem like they are worth the trouble. If fixing the bug is really about adding a new feature, transfer it to a different list. The thing about bugs is that they get reliably re-reported over time anyway, causing you to spend even more time noting the duplicates. And for old bugs, you need to spend even more time reconfirming if they are still relevant. Everybody hates this. Why not exploit the recurrent nature of bug reports, and assume the users will ask us about it again if it matters? I can't think of an instance where we were really glad that we saved some minor bug reports from months and months ago.

codinghorror 14y ago
> The thing about bugs is that they get reliably re-reported over time anyway This is the key sentence. If a bug matters, it will be reported more than once. In fact the more it is reported, the more it matters. If you need to do something, and forget, then there will be consequences. Those consequences will be a strong reminder that in the future your brain should be a lot more scared of this outcome. And if there are no consequences, did you really need to do that thing? Because why? Similarly, if an idea you had is good and you didn't write it down, don't worry, it will come back. Good ideas have a nasty habit of bubbling up in your brain and not leaving you alone. Have some confidence in your mind's ability to consistently dredge up the good stuff on its own. You don't need systems and methodologies and software to do so.
- neilk 14y ago
  I'm not sure I agree. I am consumed with interest in a particular project right now, but there are so many avenues to explore, it's very easy for me to get interested in what font the logo should be or a bunch of other stuff that just doesn't matter. My brain's natural impulses are not always helpful.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- flurie 14y ago
  I'm not sure using "if you love something, set it free" is a good judge of the worth of ideas. To me it belies a lack of deep introspection.
  - npsimons 14y ago
    To me it belies a lack of deep introspection. I think this could describe most of the articles on codinghorror.com these days. Or to put it more politely (from a quote by Einstein): "The horizon of many people is a circle with a radius of zero. They call this their point of view." What doesn't work for someone may work for others.
- npsimons 14y ago
  If you need to do something, and forget, then there will be consequences. Like feeding your pets? Or your children? Yeah, I'm sure the court will see it that way. Similarly, if an idea you had is good and you didn't write it down, don't worry, it will come back. Good ideas have a nasty habit of bubbling up in your brain and not leaving you alone. What evidence do you have for this? How many scientific breakthroughs have been due to happy accidents, or someone noticing a tiny thread and keeping track of it? How many times do you hear about some scientific discovery that took decades because people kept forgetting to note "insignificant" details? One last thing: just because lists don't work for you doesn't mean they don't have utility for others.

SCdF 14y ago

Jeff this is a bit fallacious. There is a fairly intelligible difference between "keeping a list of bugs that need to be fixed never works let's just remember it in our heads" and "bug databases often get misused and the result is they fill up with junk". The downsides noted in that quote are definitely valid, and I've worked in companies / projects where that happens, but I don't think that completely invalidates them as a concept.

cmccabe 14y ago
A bug tracker is not a TODO list. I work on Hadoop, and there are bugs that have been open for 6 years now, and probably will be open for 6 more. Bug trackers can help you compose a TODO list (sometimes called a roadmap, in a corporate context), but they are not themselves TODO lists.