3 ms·

> hybrid power unit closer to 50/50 split between ICE and electric horsepower Fun fact, at those ratios it would make a lot of sense to use an electric continu

> hybrid power unit closer to 50/50 split between ICE and electric horsepower Fun fact, at those ratios it would make a lot of sense to use an electric continuous variable transmission (eCVT) - connect the engine and the motor with a planetary gear set to the wheels, done. The electric motor spins backwards when going slow and forward when going fast. Those eCVTs can be lighter, more efficient an deliver more power across the entire range. But they're illegal in F1 - because they make the car sound boring.

globular-toast 10mo ago
How Toyota's eCVT transmission works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyK3ZlUbtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyK3ZlUbtM (Nerd snipe warning: the Weber Auto channel is brilliant and has lessons about all kinds of transmission and engine types). When it comes to something like F1 I think it's OK for efficiency to not be the top priority. Road vehicles absolutely should be as light and efficient as possible with strict limits on pollution (including noise). But it's OK for society to have a few things like F1 that are just for fun. We just don't want everyone to be driving F1 cars around their neighbourhoods or have an F1 race every week.
- pbmonster 10mo ago
  I think the F1 teams would all switch to racing versions of those transmissions the second they would be allowed to do so. The efficiency gains wouldn't even be important in comparison (until you start bringing significantly less fuel than your opponents), but just the reduction in weight and size (important for aero considerations) would be worth it. Also, the power gains from always running the ICE (and its turbo) at the perfect sweet spot in the power curve would be a giant advantage in racing.
  - globular-toast 10mo ago
    Yeah, but a huge part of F1 is the sound. It's iconic in the true sense of the word. I can totally understand them wanting to protect it as part of the brand. Enthusiasts might be into other types of motor racing, but F1 sounds fast. Everyone understands that.
    - Gare 10mo ago
      Well, they could add speakers that make vroom-vroom noises.
      - lelanthran 10mo ago
        > Well, they could add speakers that make vroom-vroom noises. And you could have typed this comment into notepad and saved it on a file on your desktop, but instead you shared it with a world that considers it irrelevant. See? We all do useless things.
  - KeplerBoy 10mo ago
    Correct, it has been done and got shutdown immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW15C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW15C
    - rurban 10mo ago
      Mercedes is running with a CVT again for some years
      - WillPostForFood 10mo ago
        By rule, all F1 teams have to use a sequential gearbox. It is section 9.7.1 of Technical regulations: 9.7.1 The number of forward gear ratios must be 8. Continuously variable transmission systems are not permitted.
      - dralley 10mo ago
        They are not.
- KeplerBoy 10mo ago
  I believe F1 cars are actually incredibly efficient. You can only take so much fuel and fuel is also weight. You can only win if you use the available fuel to propel you forwards efficiently.
  - dontlaugh 10mo ago
    Definitely, but the weight of the fuel doesn’t matter that much and they allowed quite a bit of fuel. Cars wouldn’t gain much by being twice as efficient if they were any slower.
toast0 10mo ago
> But they're illegal in F1 - because they make the car sound boring. I can confirm, my CMAX has an eCVT, and the engine noises are boring. Either it's off, or it's running in a pretty limited range, you can get a bit of fun rev increasing noises if you drive it just right... but mostly boring. My 81 VW Vanagon is much more fun to drive even if it's objectively worse at everything in terms of acceleration, top speed, wheel slip, etc; although the turning circle on the cmax is garbage, so the vanagon wins there. The VW makes fun sounds as you go from low rpm to redline several times as you work through the gears, and the cmax is just droning along.
- runlaszlorun 10mo ago
  > My 81 VW Vanagon is much more fun to drive even if... Yes! I drive the snot out of my mom's '81 Vanagon when I was back in high school. I need one in my life again... Lol
  - toast0 10mo ago
    At least around me, there's a good number for sale. Lots more if you don't mind water cooling and/or subaru engine swaps. Mostly parts are available; although some things need creativity: federal EGR filters are unobtainable so people might EGR delete instead, rear side markers aren't available, so you have to use Mercedes G-Wagon parts (but they used to use Vanagon parts and scratch off the logos!), I had to adapt a crankcase ventilation valve from a different car because they don't make the ones for mine anymore. Also, headlight switches are available new, but the molds are wrong, so they break when installing (I found a used one, and added headlight relays to reduce the current going through the switch). Oh, and I'm in the second year of ownership, so I started getting fun problems where it runs ok at home but not on the road. When it is running though, you almost have to drive the snot out of it... Otherwise it'll take an hour to get up to speed.

globular-toast 10mo ago

How Toyota's eCVT transmission works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyK3ZlUbtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyK3ZlUbtM (Nerd snipe warning: the Weber Auto channel is brilliant and has lessons about all kinds of transmission and engine types). When it comes to something like F1 I think it's OK for efficiency to not be the top priority. Road vehicles absolutely should be as light and efficient as possible with strict limits on pollution (including noise). But it's OK for society to have a few things like F1 that are just for fun. We just don't want everyone to be driving F1 cars around their neighbourhoods or have an F1 race every week.

pbmonster 10mo ago
I think the F1 teams would all switch to racing versions of those transmissions the second they would be allowed to do so. The efficiency gains wouldn't even be important in comparison (until you start bringing significantly less fuel than your opponents), but just the reduction in weight and size (important for aero considerations) would be worth it. Also, the power gains from always running the ICE (and its turbo) at the perfect sweet spot in the power curve would be a giant advantage in racing.
- globular-toast 10mo ago
  Yeah, but a huge part of F1 is the sound. It's iconic in the true sense of the word. I can totally understand them wanting to protect it as part of the brand. Enthusiasts might be into other types of motor racing, but F1 sounds fast. Everyone understands that.
  - Gare 10mo ago
    Well, they could add speakers that make vroom-vroom noises.
    - lelanthran 10mo ago
      > Well, they could add speakers that make vroom-vroom noises. And you could have typed this comment into notepad and saved it on a file on your desktop, but instead you shared it with a world that considers it irrelevant. See? We all do useless things.
- KeplerBoy 10mo ago
  Correct, it has been done and got shutdown immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW15C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW15C
  - rurban 10mo ago
    Mercedes is running with a CVT again for some years
    - WillPostForFood 10mo ago
      By rule, all F1 teams have to use a sequential gearbox. It is section 9.7.1 of Technical regulations: 9.7.1 The number of forward gear ratios must be 8. Continuously variable transmission systems are not permitted.
    - dralley 10mo ago
      They are not.
KeplerBoy 10mo ago
I believe F1 cars are actually incredibly efficient. You can only take so much fuel and fuel is also weight. You can only win if you use the available fuel to propel you forwards efficiently.
- dontlaugh 10mo ago
  Definitely, but the weight of the fuel doesn’t matter that much and they allowed quite a bit of fuel. Cars wouldn’t gain much by being twice as efficient if they were any slower.

toast0 10mo ago

> But they're illegal in F1 - because they make the car sound boring. I can confirm, my CMAX has an eCVT, and the engine noises are boring. Either it's off, or it's running in a pretty limited range, you can get a bit of fun rev increasing noises if you drive it just right... but mostly boring. My 81 VW Vanagon is much more fun to drive even if it's objectively worse at everything in terms of acceleration, top speed, wheel slip, etc; although the turning circle on the cmax is garbage, so the vanagon wins there. The VW makes fun sounds as you go from low rpm to redline several times as you work through the gears, and the cmax is just droning along.

runlaszlorun 10mo ago
> My 81 VW Vanagon is much more fun to drive even if... Yes! I drive the snot out of my mom's '81 Vanagon when I was back in high school. I need one in my life again... Lol
- toast0 10mo ago
  At least around me, there's a good number for sale. Lots more if you don't mind water cooling and/or subaru engine swaps. Mostly parts are available; although some things need creativity: federal EGR filters are unobtainable so people might EGR delete instead, rear side markers aren't available, so you have to use Mercedes G-Wagon parts (but they used to use Vanagon parts and scratch off the logos!), I had to adapt a crankcase ventilation valve from a different car because they don't make the ones for mine anymore. Also, headlight switches are available new, but the molds are wrong, so they break when installing (I found a used one, and added headlight relays to reduce the current going through the switch). Oh, and I'm in the second year of ownership, so I started getting fun problems where it runs ok at home but not on the road. When it is running though, you almost have to drive the snot out of it... Otherwise it'll take an hour to get up to speed.